What is going on at FBC Colleyville (TX)?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gtbuzzarp, Mar 14, 2006.

  1. gtbuzzarp

    gtbuzzarp
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    I just happened to run across these recent articles about FBC Colleyville. From the sounds of it, it sounds like a pastor who is not accountable. But I know there are two sides to every story. I also know that just because you've been a member for 1000 years or because of your status in the community, does not mean you are "untouchable". From the sounds of it, though, it doesn't sound like things were handled in a Biblical manner. Anyone on the BB attend FBCC and care to give us your viewpoint? I'd love hear both sides of the story.

    Articles are found here:

    LINK1

    LINK2

    LINK3
     
  2. saturneptune

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    From reading the article, it sounds like that "preacher" needs to be hog tied and sent on a one way rocket to the moon. The article is very confusing, as my understanding of removing someones membership is a majority church vote for blatant, repetitive, unrepentent, gross sin. I never could figure out what they were kicked out for, or if a vote was taken by the Congregation.

    This clown wouldnt last 2 seconds in my church, and may God give this guy everything he deserves and restore these four people to the fellowship of the local church.

    The last thing we need anywhere in this country is a slick, packaged, leader in the Baptist or any Christian faith.
     
  3. rbell

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    I will pray for this church and the people impacted by it...nothing further from me on this.
     
  4. Baptist Believer

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    I was in seminary at the same time Frank Harber was there, and all of the accusations against him ring very true to what I have known of him.

    And, for what it is worth, I don't think that getting a "doctorate" in record-breaking time is anything to brag about. Everyone I've known who has tried to rush their degree program has failed to gain a deep mastery of the materials.
     
  5. RandR

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    Two things happening here:

    1. Poor leadership.
    2. Poor followership.

    The articles are obvioulsy written from the perspective of those people who don't support Frank. Still, if one has followed his ministry and tenure at that church, this isn't terribly surprising.

    No winners here. Regardless of which "side" is ultimatley vindicated here, the Mission loses.
     
  6. Salamander

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    just 3 things to say about this GOSSIP! GOSSIP! GOSSIP! and I wont even waste redeemable time worried about it or even read the article.
     
  7. gtbuzzarp

    gtbuzzarp
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    Evidently it was worth your time to post without any support for your claim (Which cannot be done without reading the articles) That deems the above comments as ad hominem assertions.

    Individuals under this post may turn this into gossip. But that was not my intention. I know that media reports are biased, and this gives members the opportunity to dispell the rumors amongst fellow believers; whereas, an online newspaper does not.

    It is also profitable to discuss the merits of such actions discussed in the articles. This can be done without making personal attacks, without gossipping, or without even referring to the parties involved. The purpose is to seek the truth, not to demean a local body of believers.

    I want to know the facts, not perpetuate rumors.

    And if nothing else, this has gotten more people to pray for this congregation.

    If my intention was to gossip the OP would have read more like:"Did you hear what happened at FBCC? Can you believe it!?!? And I thought it was such a wonderful church. Go here and read all about it for youself."
     
  8. Phillip

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    It is interesting that Frank Harber was mentioned and compared by a person who wrote a letter to the editor concerning going to school to learn how to run a church and that's exactly what he is doing.

    The interesting thing about this statement is that I also know a pastor who had almost the very same personality (but not nearly as bright) try to do the same thing in another church. He tried to move the church when the vote was 52% for to 48% against. (Which half of the church was right with the Lord, was the question asked...)

    He finally had to leave the church in debt and with land for a building full of rocks that will cost a fortune to move--and half the congregation still not wanting to move.

    Of course, his friend running a state (I won't say what state) convention was his roommate in school so he made a job opening for him.

    It appears that this business of running a church like a CEO has gotten out of hand and is appearing more often than ever. What better place to be a wolf-in-sheep's-clothing. Sad..........
     
  9. Baptist Believer

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    Update

    http://www.abpnews.com/1318.article

    COLLEYVILLE, Texas (ABP) -- Frank Harber, pastor of First Baptist Church of Colleyville, Texas, resigned Aug. 18 amid allegations he benefited from an improper real estate deal...

    ...

    Harber, the Colleyville pastor, recently bought a nearly one-acre lot in a gated community at well below market value, according to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. While lots in the ritzy neighborhood routinely sell for $200,000-plus, Harber paid just $25,000, according to public records.

    The sale was shrouded by a series of questionable transactions that involved two other churches.

    Developer John Fegan, a member of the Colleyville church, helped donate the land to the Trail to Heaven Cowboy Church, which is affiliated with First Baptist Church of Celina. Raymond Horne, pastor of the Celina church, said the donors told him the land was worth only $25,000 and that they had already arranged a buyer for the land.

    That buyer, ultimately, was Harber.

    Horne, although he declined to comment for this story, said in an Aug. 18 Star-Telegram story that he felt “taken advantage of.”

    After the sale, Colleyville church member Tony Johann, who works in the same land development company as Fegan, signed the deed and helped begin construction of a 5,120-square-foot, million-dollar home for the Harber family, the Star-Telegram reported.

    Donald Schmeltekopf, Baylor University’s director of its Center for Ministry Effectiveness and Educational Leadership, said Harber’s situation crossed definite ethical boundaries.

    “At the ethical level, this is clearly a case of collusion,” he said. “In a situation like this, it sure does stink. And it is not the kind of thing that anybody should be doing from an ethical standpoint.”

    ...

    Many church members have publicly supported the charismatic Harber, writing letters to the editor at the Star-Telegram and other local news outlets.

    First Baptist member Teri Randall Brown, for instance, wrote that the scandal was caused by “bitter people digging up everything they can to destroy this very effective evangelistic pastor and his reputation.”
    “How sad that buying a home, which should be a happy event for that family, has been turned into a gossip column news wave,” she wrote.
    Deupree thinks otherwise. A member of the 2,753-member church since 1969, he and a group of about 50 people began questioning church policy and finances after being “stonewalled” when they requested information regarding a proposed church relocation and a building project on an unnamed 40-acre plot outside of Colleyville.

    After the dissidents were rebuffed in their efforts to obtain member lists and construction budget plans, they consulted a lawyer about their right to the information. Later they were locked out of the church on a cold February morning, and Deupree was asked to resign as a Sunday school teacher. Then Deupree and three others received letters forbidding them to “set foot” on the church property, he said.

    But Deupree's research into church records uncovered a June 6 property transfer involving First Baptist Church of Celina and Trail to Heaven Cowboy Church. For Deupree, that previously hidden transaction crossed an ethical boundary when it comes to pastoral benefits.

    “If they had deeded it right to Frank Harber, I would have had no problem,” he said. But donations to non-profit entities like churches have specific Internal Revenue Service stipulations and requirements.

    For Harber, as an individual, the transaction represents tax evasion, Deupree said.
     
  10. El_Guero

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    . . . I pray that God's ministry is not overly damaged by this.

    At the moment, all I am able to do is try to absorb it.
     
  11. Grasshopper

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    There is much more than just a shady real estate deal.
     
  12. preachinjesus

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    the issue here is ethical limits and impropriety. Pastors are commended to be above reproach and blameless

    I wonder aloud if this situation meets those requirements no matter how we look at them.

    interesting that two major leaders in the DFW area have been removed from their churches because of sugested financial issues in the past three years. What does that mean for us in the church? How does this look to those outside our walls? How does it line up biblically?

    this is not meant for gossip or slander, just an honest question about pastoral function.
     
  13. EdSutton

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    I ain't takin' no 'sides' but would say after reading this, "Sumpin' stinks!" And since my nose ain't all that good due to allergies, I'd try to keep it clean. How? I'd stay away from it all, and all sides, for I'm sure in Tarrant County, I can find another church or two not involved in any way. And if I'm not mistaken, the pastor of a church in next-door Euless was elected SBC President a few years ago.

    In other words, if it was me, as to what was and is happening in Colleyville, I think I'd remain or choose to become clueless, and check out First Baptist Church in Euless!! :thumbsup: :smilewinkgrin: :laugh: :laugh:

    Ed
     
  14. El_Guero

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    Preachn

    I musta missed the other one.

    I just think that we have too many people that think we can do anything and it is ok. I know that I fight sin. And I just have to tell myself, "My sin is just as evil as their sin. Mine is just different"

    But, then we have another scandal . . . and it is really difficult for me to justify the sin that is happening . . .
     
  15. preachinjesus

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    Not worth rehashing imho...this doesn't look like a witch hunt imho

    I understand. It just saddens me that I'm growing up (ministry wise) in an SBC that is going to be rocked by the disclosure of more improprieties like this along the way. Makes it harder to champion the cause of Christ when we're more like the world...I'm just really sad right now
     
  16. El_Guero

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    If the SBC had glory days 40 years ago - I think the glory days are over.
     
  17. Baptist Believer

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    Very true. I haven't been surprised by anything that has so far been revealed. He better hope he doesn't get audited by the IRS.
     
  18. Berean

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    Whats going on in Colleyville? (TX)

    This thread has helped answer a question I have been asking for some time: Why are Baptist Churches dropping baptist from their name?
     
  19. gb93433

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    Most anyone might be surprised at the lack of ethics among many of the SBC leadership today.

    I knew Frank Harber when he was in seminary and a number of big shots in leadership in the SBC helped pave the way for him and put him where he was. When I knew him I though he had a good heart. I think it was those he was around who helped him come down.
     
  20. gb93433

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    How about those who were with him in the deal? Doesn't that say something about them?

    I pastored a church where a few of the deacons had been misrepresenting the attendance week after week. One Sunday I decided to count for myself. After the second service I asked one of the deacon's about that. He told me that was a common practice for a long time. I told him that as long as I was there I would not allow that. He did not like what I said very well. Some of the deacons continued to dog me about other things. Now they have a former SBC leader as their pastor and the troublemakers are coming into leadership. However, the church is slowly dying.

    I also confronted that same church on their lack of business ethics in keeping their books. They did not like that either. That is until I was audited and they were found wrong because I did my taxes properly.
     

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