What is in this cup?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by tnelson, Jan 12, 2004.

  1. tnelson

    tnelson
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Luke 22:42
    Saying, Father, If thou be willing, remove this cup from me;

    What all is in this cup?

    mike
     
  2. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Suffering.
     
  3. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    An infinite amount of suffering---in a finite period of time!
     
  4. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    From what I understand He is talking about teh (and someone correct me if I have the number wrong) 5th cup of the passover meal He had just celebrated. It is the cup of redemtion, and I agree with the others, it is full of suffering, and yet hope. Infanite suffering for Christ, yet hope for us.
     
  5. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
  6. Precepts

    Precepts
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have always heard it as the "bitter cup"/ the "dregs of sin", Christ knowing what was in it and thereby Him becoming "sin" for partaking it's content/ all the sin of creation: figuratively.
     
  7. Askjo

    Askjo
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    The wine (grape) is in this cup. The wine in this cup was symbol of Jesus' blood.
     
  8. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jesus took a cup of wine with him from the Last Supper to Gethsemane?
     
  9. Caretaker

    Caretaker
    Expand Collapse
    <img src= /drew.gif>

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gethsemane means "Olive press", was a lush garden, and I believe was east of the city near the slopes of the Mount of Olives. The same three, Peter, James, John, (who had witnessed His transfiguration), were taken deeper into the garden, with Jesus. The cup likely represents the wrath of God poured out upon sin, and the coming weight of the sins of the world which were to be poured upon Christ as He would hang upon the Cross, and for the first time be separated from the Father.

    The anguish He experienced was much like being in the "olive press", as Christ sweated blood.


    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  10. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    2,782
    Likes Received:
    0
    At the last supper Jesus shared, he told the disciples the cup was His blood. The wine therein was symbolic, you see, of His blood, and unknowing to the Jews, in the mind of God it had always been so.

    The cup that came to Him in Gethsemene did not have anything in it. He was going to supply the contents Himself from His own blood. That's why He wanted the cup to go away, if it were possible.
     
  11. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,133
    Likes Received:
    0
    Something to think about...

    Luke 22:40. the place—the Garden of Gethsemane, on the west or city side of the mount. Comparing all the accounts of this mysterious scene, the facts appear to be these: (1) He bade nine of the Twelve remain “here” while He went and prayed “yonder.” (2) He “took the other three, Peter, James, and John, and began to be sore amazed [appalled], sorrowful, and very heavy [oppressed], and said, My soul is exceeding sorrowful even unto death”—“I feel as if nature would sink under this load, as if life were ebbing out, and death coming before its time”—“tarry ye here, and watch with Me”; not, “Witness for Me,” but, “Bear Me company.” It did Him good, it seems, to have them beside Him. (3) But soon even they were too much for Him: He must be alone. “He was withdrawn from them about a stone’s-cast”—though near enough for them to be competent witnesses and kneeled down, uttering that most affecting prayer (Mk 14:36), that if possible “the cup,” of His approaching death, “might pass from Him, but if not, His Father’s will be done”: implying that in itself it was so purely revolting that only its being the Father’s will would induce Him to taste it, but that in that view of it He was perfectly prepared to drink it. It is no struggle between a reluctant and a compliant will, but between two views of one event—an abstract and a relative view of it, in the one of which it was revolting, in the other welcome. By signifying how it felt in the one view, He shows His beautiful oneness with ourselves in nature and feeling; by expressing how He regarded it in the other light, He reveals His absolute obediential subjection to His Father. (4) On this, having a momentary relief, for it came upon Him, we imagine, by surges, He returns to the three, and finding them sleeping, He addresses them affectingly, particularly Peter, as in Mk 14:37, 38. He then (5) goes back, not now to kneel, but fell on His face on the ground, saying the same words, but with this turn, “If this cup may not pass,” &c. (Mt 26:42)—that is, ‘Yes, I understand this mysterious silence (Ps 22:1–6); it may not pass; I am to drink it, and I will’—“Thy will be done!” (6) Again, for a moment relieved, He returns and finds them “sleeping for sorrow,” warns them as before, but puts a loving construction upon it, separating between the “willing spirit” and the “weak flesh.” (7) Once more, returning to His solitary spot, the surges rise higher, beat more tempestuously, and seem ready to overwhelm Him. To fortify Him for this, “there appeared an angel unto Him from heaven strengthening Him”—not to minister light or comfort (He was to have none of that, and they were not needed nor fitted to convey it), but purely to sustain and brace up sinking nature for a yet hotter and fiercer struggle. And now, He is “in an agony, and prays more earnestly”—even Christ’s prayer, it seems, admitted of and now demanded such increase—“and His sweat was as it were great drops [literally, ‘clots’] of blood falling down to the ground.” What was this? Not His proper sacrificial offering, though essential to it. It was just the internal struggle, apparently hushing itself before, but now swelling up again, convulsing His whole inner man, and this so affecting His animal nature that the sweat oozed out from every pore in thick drops of blood, falling to the ground. It was just shuddering nature and indomitable will struggling together. But again the cry, If it must be, Thy will be done, issues from His lips, and all is over. “The bitterness of death is past.” He has anticipated and rehearsed His final conflict, and won the victory—now on the theater of an invincible will, as then on the arena of the Cross. “I will suffer,” is the grand result of Gethsemane: “It is finished” is the shout that bursts from the Cross. The Will without the Deed had been all in vain; but His work was consummated when He carried the now manifested Will into the palpable Deed, “by the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all” (Heb 10:10). (8) At the close of the whole scene, finding them still sleeping (worn out with continued sorrow and racking anxiety), He bids them, with an irony of deep emotion, “sleep on now and take their rest, the hour is come, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners, rise, let us be going, the traitor is at hand.” And while He spoke, Judas approached with his armed band. Thus they proved “miserable comforters,” broken reeds; and thus in His whole work He was alone, and “of the people there was none with Him.”
    Jamieson, Robert; Fausset, A.R.; and Brown, David, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1998.
     
  12. Askjo

    Askjo
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Cup: Remove or Pass

    Matthew 26:41 refers to the cup to be passed.

    Luke 22:42 refers to the cup to be removed.

    What is the difference between them?
     
  13. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    2,782
    Likes Received:
    0
    No difference between those two passages - we are dealing with a translation into Greek from Aramaic choice made by the alternate gospel writers.
     
  14. Askjo

    Askjo
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    No difference?

    Ramson quoted, "Suffering."

    Daniel David quoted, "wrath."

    These double passages on the cup said: Passed or removed?
     
  15. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    According to Isaiah 53, God's wrath would be placed upon the Servant of the Lord. Obviously suffering would be in that. Both are true.

    Christ had to bear the wrath of God all by himself.
     
  16. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Askjo asked:

    No difference?

    Ramson quoted, "Suffering."

    Daniel David quoted, "wrath."


    God poured out his wrath. Christ suffered. No difference.
     

Share This Page

Loading...