What is the construct of this verse

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Yelsew, Sep 8, 2003.

  1. Yelsew

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    Is this one thought or is it two thoughts?
     
  2. Pastor Larry

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    Is this one thought or is it two thoughts? </font>[/QUOTE]It seems quite obvious that it is two connected thoughts: All that the Father gives will come; And none of them will be rejected. It is two sides of the same coin. Why?
     
  3. Yelsew

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    Is this one thought or is it two thoughts? </font>[/QUOTE]It seems quite obvious that it is two connected thoughts: All that the Father gives will come; And none of them will be rejected. It is two sides of the same coin. Why? </font>[/QUOTE]Seems it more accurately says "everyone whom the father gives me" and "anyone else who comes to me". Which makes Jesus invitation a truly universal invitation to all mankind.

    Its like a church saying, "Yes, we collect the tithes, but we also accept offerings" meaning the church does not reject any donations of value.

    Jesus says that he accepts all, not just those the Father has given him!
     
  4. tnelson

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    "And (the one coming) to Me I will never cast out."

    Paster Larry check me on this please.

    The one (coming) is one who is always coming, not just the surface level professors who say Jesus a few times and then go from there. This is talking about a true Christian, a true follower of Christ, one who has saving faith and trust in the Son as his Savior. The true Christian is the one continually coming, always believing in Christ. Real Christian faith is an ongoing faith, not a one time act. If one wishes to be eternally satiated, one meal is not enough. If we wish to feast on the bread of heaven, we must do so all our lives. We will never hunger or thirst if we are (always coming and always believing) in Christ.

    by HIS GRACE
    mike
     
  5. Yelsew

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    Are you asking if this means the gift that has been given that has not yet arrived? Or the Gift that is planned but not yet made?

    Or are you asking about the "anyone who begins the relationship with Jesus Christ through believing in Him" in the manner of a courtship that starts with "hello, I'm so and so, and I like what I see in you"?
     
  6. Me2

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    God the father chooses whom he will impart his Sons spirit within.

    then and only then will this person with this newly imparted spirit within them be drawn to Jesus.

    All men and women who has Gods Spirit imparted within them finds their Christ.

    this is the reference to the scripture mentioned.
    Christ receives and forgives all.

    yet some do not continue their relationship with him "by faith".

    they imagine they no longer deserve forgiveness and the no longer need the use of the office of christ.

    many begin to imagine a different Christ.
    and their knowledge and nature of Him soon fades.
     
  7. Frogman

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    If they have received the impartation of the Spirit of the Son of God how then can they be disobedient to or forgetful of him who dwells within them? The Son was never so.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  8. Me2

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    Frogman,


    first, the son was never so.

    man was born with the wrong spirit.
    it is enmity of their creator.
    the virgin birth proves the necessity of another spirit having to be imparted to mankind. without this impartation to each of Gods adopted children. mankind is doomed.

    we live by faith. the faith that comes from the righteous spirit of Christ within us.

    when we are taught of the holy spirit. we accept these truths even though we have no physical proof. we "hold" to the nature of God that he loves us, seeks our good and does not lie.

    in due time, the second part of this knowledge is given within our own participation in our day to day lives.
    again by faith, we correlate what the spirit has taught our spirit together with the experience. the two parts together are the sum of the whole of knowledge.

    we live in a day by day relationship with God.

    when we understand the knowledge that The holy spirit gives us. then we can read in the bible of testimonies of others with like kind experiences and understandings. without our own individual proof of knowledge. the testimony of others written of within the pages of the bibles are not understandable. we use the bible for consulation. it parallels others testimonies to give us comfort and consulation in our own relationship with God.

    I repeat we live by faith. If One refuses to live before God by faith. they read in their bibles and see instruction as rules and advise that they comprehend with their carnal brain. not with the spiritual mind of Christ. they are blind to the truth of God for it is spiritually discerned with the assistance of the Holy spirit.

    here's a simple example. when we are said to be born again. what does that mean? God shows our own death, judgement and resurrection. He shows us the impartation of Christ spirit within our own beings.
    he proves to his children that they have no need of fear for they have become a part of God by God becoming a part of His children.

    as seen through the eyes of our Lords Faith.

    with a Father like that. Would you consider him forsaking you? or even to forsake others seeing the importance he places on you as a human being?

    His love for his creation is far past our comprehension.

    we are continually warned to live by faith. those forsaking the truth forsakes their ability to "see" by faith.

    2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
    2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
    2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
    2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
    2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
    2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
    2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
    2Pe 1:12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know [them], and be established in the present truth.

    we know of the many places where disobedient children are mentioned. we can identify those who live WITHOUT faith towards God.

    yet they still possess the spirit of God within them.

    although their trying to please their God in a manner not specified by Our Father. they are working by performing before him
    instead of simply saying thank you.


    Me2
     
  9. tannerml

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    Is this one thought or is it two thoughts? ...

    Seems it more accurately says "everyone whom the father gives me" and "anyone else who comes to me". Which makes Jesus invitation a truly universal invitation to all mankind.

    Its like a church saying, "Yes, we collect the tithes, but we also accept offerings" meaning the church does not reject any donations of value.

    Jesus says that he accepts all, not just those the Father has given him! [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]You don't get to add words to scripture so that it fits whatever you want it to say. Adding the word "else" as you did certainly could change the meaning of the passage to something similiar to what you espouse but since the word "else" is not found in the passage the point is moot and your conclusion faulty. At best, this is sloppy exegesis.
     
  10. Yelsew

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    Thank you TannerML.
     
  11. tannerml

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    You're welcome.
     

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