What is the difference?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. agedman

    agedman
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    Two words have two completely different meanings as it relates to salvation in my view.

    Often the word "accept" is used: Accept the Lord as your savior. Accept Christ into your life. ...

    However, the problem is this word is NOT Scriptural.

    The Bible uses "believe" as the key. The "accept" is related only in the act of accepting the person or accepting the word.

    Unless I have missed some Scripture, to be saved, the belief system has to be modified.

    Only the Holy Spirit can do that work in the heart of the unregenerate.

    If you think the words are the same, then show by Scriptures how they can be interchanged and it not distort the meaning.

    For the greek scholars: No, I haven't done any original language comparisons. Perhaps you could expound upon such with your thinking, too.

    Try it with the following from Acts 16:
    "27When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. 28But Paul cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here!” 29And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
    31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household."


    Then try it with this from Acts 22:

    12“A certain Ananias, a man who was devout by the standard of the Law, and well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, 13came to me, and standing near said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight!’ And at that very time I looked up at him. 14“And he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth. 15‘For you will be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16‘Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’ 17“It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I fell into a trance, 18and I saw Him saying to me, ‘Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.’ 19“And I said, ‘Lord, they themselves understand that in one synagogue after another I used to imprison and beat those who believed in You. 20‘And when the blood of Your witness Stephen was being shed, I also was standing by approving, and watching out for the coats of those who were slaying him.’ 21“And He said to me, ‘Go! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’”


    BTW, I found out that when I used the source that I used for pasting the passages, you can click on the verse number and the actual passage will appear in with multiple translations.

    This should be a bit helpful if we might all consider it's use in threads.
     
    #1 agedman, Jun 21, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2013
  2. HisWitness

    HisWitness
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    and that word Believe isn't talking about a mental or mind Believing only

    it refers to the Whole heart---and that my friend is Totally impossible with man---because Man is Totally in love with Sin and the world

    It takes the Holy Spirit to change Man's heart and to even desire God--He draws man just like he said he would do unto himself.

    In the day of his power he makes man willing with the Whole heart to BELIEVE
     
  3. InTheLight

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    I agree with you that "accept" and "believe" have differing meanings, but they are closely related.

    When I hear the phrase "accept Christ" I think of it in terms of accept the fact that he's the son of God, is the savior, etc. and believe it. I don't equate it with "accept Jesus into your heart" (I actually don't like that phrase.)

    Also, when I think of accept Christ in the manner of accepting he's the son of God, the savior, etc. I always think of it in light of John 1:12, which is probably the only verse where accept and believe are used somewhat interchangeably, if you go along with the idea that receiving Christ is similar to accepting Christ.

    But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
     
  4. quantumfaith

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    And to think, all these years I thought it was to "except" Christ. :)

    Seriously, there may be a small minor point in this OP, however, I have lived long enough to know that most people do not "parse" language and terms the way we often do here in BB land.

    Personally I have always like the use of the ABC

    Acknowledge
    Believe
    Confess.
     
  5. HisWitness

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    mental assent to the facts of all those things doesn't bring Life--its good to believe in your head(mind believing) but the problem is Man's Heart--its wicked to the core--in love with self,sin and the world.

    all that mind or mental belief must be with the Heart of Man--and for that too happen it takes a work of God to bring the Man unto himself

    Mental assent to the facts is a good thing--but NOT enough!!!
     
  6. convicted1

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    I agree with the OP to a certain extent, but are you willing to "accept" anything you don't believe in? If you don't believe in something, the willingness to "accept" it is nil.....imo, of course....
     
  7. Winman

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    When most people speak of "accepting" the Lord, they mean "to receive" Jesus as in John 1:12.

    Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    Verse 11 speaks of the Jews who rejected Jesus as their Saviour. Verse 12 speaks of those persons who received or "accepted" Jesus as their Saviour. This is what most people mean by using the word "accept".

    Verse 12 also shows that this receiving Jesus is the same as believing or trusting on Jesus as Saviour. This means to depend or rely on Jesus to save us and not our own righteousness or works.

    To those persons who receive or accept Jesus and believe on his name, to these persons does God give the power to become the sons of God, which is to be "born again".

    Verse 13 simply shows that being born again is a work of God. It is not of blood, that is, you cannot inherit eternal life simply because you are a descendant of Abraham, or the descendant of Christian parents, it is not something man can will, only God can perform this act and regenerate a man.

    Nevertheless, God promises in MANY verses to give life to those who believe.

    Calvinism teaches the exact opposite of scripture, that you must have life or regeneration to have the ability to believe. That is the reverse of what the word of God says.
     
  8. quantumfaith

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    What about my statement makes you think that I indicate nothing more than an intellectual assent?
     
  9. Van

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    I think it is good to discuss the words we throw around. Here we have accept and believe. In order to believe something is true, trustworthy, dependable, you must accept it as true, trustworthy and dependable.

    The Bible tells us we must believe from the heart, thus the idea is more than intellectual accent, i.e. I believe Jesus died on a cross. It includes going "all in" for Jesus, an acceptance and commitment to Christ with all your mind, with all your heart, with all you being.

    But lets take another point in the OP, in order to be saved, the Holy Spirit must do a work in the heart. Show me a verse that says that rather than when we are saved the Holy Spirit does a work in our heart. Thus the Holy Spirit sets us apart in Christ, the sanctifying work of the Spirit, and then we are "converted" we undergo the circumcision of Christ and arise in Christ a new creation.

    Mark 4:20, depending on your translation has that we must (1) receive it, (2) accept it, (3) welcome it. So when we see the word "receive" in the KJV, some other translations, i.e. NASB, say we must accept it.

    Here is the lexicon: 1) to receive, take up, take upon one's self

    2) to admit i.e. not to reject, to accept, receive

    a) of a son: to acknowledge as one's own
     
    #9 Van, Jun 21, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2013
  10. agedman

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    Mark 4:20, has no indication that "we" do anything.

    What the sower/seed parable expresses is the effect of the Word (seed) implanted in the various grounds (heart) and that only the prepared soil is used to bring the seed to harvest.

    The owner of the dirt, determines the various uses of the dirt, not the dirt.

    I have been looking through the NT, and have yet to find any place that accept can or does replace believe.

    The demonic forces accept Jesus is Lord and has power over them.

    But acceptance does not equate belief. Neither does acceptance change the core belief system of a person. One can accept and never even desire or experience any true change in the core belief system. One can accept and adopt for a time some some religious-likeness, but there is really not depth nor substance of belief.

    Believe is the only word that stands as used consistently in relation to salvation and is used throughout the NT in that capacity.

    Humankind belief is not self generated it is part of our birth and modified throughout the formative years by education and experience. Both history and Scriptures indicate that from the core a heathen is corrupt in sin - that the belief system is fallen and has no true desire for the the things of God.

    A change of the magnitude that salvation brings in a person comes only by a dramatic shift/change in the very core belief system of that person. That change when related to salvation can only occur through the direct and purposed work of God through the Holy Spirit using the Word.
     
  11. Benjamin

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    When I hear a Calvinist complaining about the word "accept" I already know it has to do with one actually having the will/volition to make a choice or not...as the Calvinist view is logically dependent on Determinism.
     
  12. saturneptune

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    The model of the salvation experience in the Bible is Paul's salvation experience. First, there is no evidence of a "sinner's prayer." That is a man made fairy tale. Without a sinner's prayer, I doubt anyone will be doing any accepting, which implies part of the salvation process on our own efforts in a fallen state.

    After the flash of blinding light I do not recall Paul saying "wow Lord, that way really a neat trick. I am going to accept what you have done here today." Come on, how does the created accept the Creator? One either believes or they do not. If they do, it was because of the work of the Holy Spirit, not because you and I decided to accept something. I accepted a pay check last payday. Give me a break.
     
  13. Benjamin

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    What was the Holy Spirit working for if not to have one accept the truth in love and believe by their own volition???

    What's the point of working for something that's already been accomplished from before time began?
     
  14. DrJamesAch

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    The one Greek reference in the NT "accept" in Acts 24:3 is apodechomai which means to "to accept from, RECEIVE; to accept what is offered from without". The word in John 1:12, lambanomeans the same thing and even has the meaning "to take" "not refuse or reject", "admit to" "to choose".

    And of course, in John 1:12, the RECEIVING came BEFORE the power was given, which is why Calvinists never quote John 1:12 with John 1:13.
     
  15. Van

    Van
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    1) Whether we are believing, a verb, accepting, a verb, or receiving, a verb, we are the one doing the action.

    And those were the ones on whom seed was sown on good soil, and they hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.

    No need to rewrite the verse to say those who have the word implanted and are cultivated and watered with irresistible grace, receive it....

    Calvinism is a mistaken unbiblical doctrine refuted by scripture after scripture, including Mark 4:20.

    Take a hard look at Hebrews 12:6, does the word mean believe or receive (accept and not cast out). Note how well the idea of to take and make His own, fits the bill. Another idea conveyed by the word is to learn something taught, thus to receive and accept and welcome also indicates to learn it and make it your own.
     
    #15 Van, Jun 22, 2013
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  16. Winman

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    Agreed, Jesus made it very clear that what type of soil you are is your own responsibility.

    Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
    12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
    13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
    14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
    15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
    16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.
    17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
    18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

    When the disciples asked Jesus to explain this parable, he described hearers as different kinds of soil.

    The way side soil is trampled down and hard, the word of God cannot penetrate these person's hearts because it has been hardened by sin. Before the seed can take root and produce fruit, the devil comes and takes the word away.

    The rocky soil is those who fall away when they are persecuted. They are not lost, because they believed, and were "sprung up" (vs. 7). Anyone who believes is saved, but they produced no fruit.

    The thorny soil is those that get distracted by the things of this world. They are also saved, because they also "sprang up" (vs. 8) which is life , but they also produced no fruit.

    And of course the good soil is those that received the word and kept it. They also "sprang up", but these produced much fruit.

    So only the way side soil was lost, it NEVER sprang up like the other three. This parable is really not about salvation, but witnessing and producing fruit (vs. 16-17). Jesus said no man lights a candle and then places it under his bed. Likewise, we are not to keep the light of the gospel to ourselves, but go out and tell others. That is the real meaning of this parable.

    Now, after Jesus explained all this, he told his disciples to "Take heed THEREFORE how ye hear". The word therefore connects this verse to the parable Jesus had just explained and shows the hearer is responsible for how they hear.

    This parable in no way supports irresistible grace, but actually refutes it.
     
    #16 Winman, Jun 22, 2013
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  17. saturneptune

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    How many of the four do you say were saved?
     
  18. Winman

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    Three.

    The way side soil was lost. It was hard and trodden down, it never received the word. Before it could, the devil (fowls) came and took it away.

    Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

    Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

    Notice the devil took away the word "lest they should believe and be saved". Jesus said if you believe you shall be saved here.

    The rocky soil believed for a awhile, it was saved.

    Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

    The rocky soil received the word and believed for a while. They are saved. The rocky soil also sprang up, which is LIFE.

    The thorny soil also received the word with joy and sprang up. They were saved.

    Luk 8:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.

    The thorns sprang up "with it". It was alive, it sprang up. Dead things do not spring up.

    So, the thorny soil and the rocky soil are both saved, but neither matured and produced any fruit, which is other Christians. Just like the fruit of a tree, the fruit is for food for others, and to reproduce the tree.

    This is why Jesus speaks of lighting a candle and showing the world.

    Luk 8:16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.

    Only the good soil listened intently to Jesus's words and obeyed, they not only sprang up, but they produced MUCH fruit.

    Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

    But again, Jesus makes it clear to his disciples that THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE for how they hear God's word.

    Luk 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

    To those that submit and listen to God's word, God will give more. But to those who will not listen (the way side), even that which is given them shall be taken away.
     
  19. Van

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    Take a hard look at Hebrews 12:6, does the word mean believe or receive (accept and not cast out). Note how well the idea of to take and make His own, fits the bill. Another idea conveyed by the word is to learn something taught, thus to receive and accept and welcome also indicates to learn it and make it your own.

    And we all know what happens to those who hear and learn from the Father, why they are taken and made His own, and not ever cast out. :)
     
    #19 Van, Jun 22, 2013
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  20. Van

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    Hi Winman, this thread does not deal directly with the issue you proposed. Lets leave it that I think scripture says not everyone who believes is saved, i.e. Matthew 7, only those whose faith God credits as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5,24. And everyone saved produces fruit, or so I believe scripture teaches, John 15:5. Third, I believe once saved, your faith and devotion to Christ is protected, (1 Peter 1:3-5) such that in your heart of hearts, you still want to follow Christ, even if it means walking through fire.

    But lets leave these different perspectives for another discussion.
     

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