What is the fate of the unborn?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by trying2understand, Jan 8, 2003.

  1. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Given the staggering number of abortions that take place every year:

    What is the eternal fate of the soul of the aborted unborn?

    I would be most interested in answers that take into consideration other related beliefs such as:

    elect/non-elect
    the necessity of hearing the gospel
    the necessity of accepting Jesus
    the belief in once saved always saved

    It's my guess that a Baptist would say that since the unborn never heard the gospel and never accepted Jesus, they simply weren't among the elect, so the fate of the unborn is eternal damnation.

    Am I far off?
     
  2. ONENESS

    ONENESS
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2001
    Messages:
    1,197
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well I dont have alot of time to look up stuff but here are some things to consider...

    The bible tells us in John 3 that we must be born again.

    How can you be reborn if you are not yet born. Are we born sinners or are we born into sin? It's kind of like saying that we are not born bad, we are born bad off.

    Also I thought I read something one time on the lines of "Children are sanctified by their parents".

    Now...I could totally be missing the mark on that one.

    Wish I had more time to study at the moment but I'm really rushed.

    Godbless
     
  3. The_Narrow_Road

    The_Narrow_Road
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  4. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    I am sure that some will disagree with me. But, as far as I am concerned you, yes you are far off. God is a God of mercy. I don't believe that He would condemn any one to Hell, unless that person has first come to an age where he is able to understand the gospel. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." One must first have the capacity to believe before he can be condemned. Thus I believe that God will take all those aborted infants to Heaven, despite their backgrounds.
    DHK
     
  5. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    I for one believe that the unborn child of Christian parents can have saving faith. One even in the womb they can and are exposed to the word of God. Two, the ability to reason is not a prereq for heaven not to mention we do not know for sure what are the reasoning abilities of a child at that age. Only the Armineans have made reason+faith a necessity for salvation

    Of course, I am not obviously not a Baptist or Calvinist or Crypto-Calvinist.

    [ January 08, 2003, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: Chemnitz ]
     
  6. neal4christ

    neal4christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,815
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am right there with you! I am a Baptist who believes likewise. I do believe in the elect, i.e. believers in Christ are the elect. I am sure you probably would agree too, Narrow.

    Neal
     
  7. The_Narrow_Road

    The_Narrow_Road
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  8. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd assume that they would be with the Lord. Same with miscarriages or stillbirths.
     
  9. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    I must admit that I am pleasantly surprised by all of your answers.

    Now how far are you willing to carry those thoughts?

    Does the same apply to young children?

    The mentally retarded?

    Some person living in a time or place who has not heard the gospel and does not have a concept of sin? Some native persons on a distant island before the coming of the Europeans for example.

    Where do you draw a distinction?
     
  10. The_Narrow_Road

    The_Narrow_Road
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe that yes, the mentally handicapped and young children who don't know right from wrong, that God would not send them to hell. They have no knowledge of the law. As for those on a far off island, they still know right from wrong. I haven't seen too many tribes were there wasn't some kind of rules and regulations, they have the law of nature. God doesn't send anyone to hell because of not hearing the gospel of Christ. People are cast into hell because of sin. The gospel of Christ is the free pardon from sin. Again, this is IMHO.
     
  11. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,250
    Likes Received:
    4
    I'm glad you're happy, Ron.

    I tend to agrre with most here, God is love, not looking for a reason to condemn.
     
  12. Multimom

    Multimom
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    0
    My experience has been that most Baptist believe in what is called "the age of accountability"

    And for most that means that if a child is not able to be accountable then they are never condemned.

    Unborn, infants, the extremely retarded etc would all fall under the "age of accountability" doctrine.

    That's pretty typical of most evangelical denominations.
     
  13. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok then, it has to do with sin and accountability. A child is not accountable because they do not yet know what is right/wrong?

    So then a knowledge of sin is required before there is a need for salvation?

    If so, does this excuse someone who never developed a conscience?

    Does this excuse someone who intellectualizes sin away?
     
  14. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,250
    Likes Received:
    4
    What do those questions have to do with the unborn, the subject at hand ?

    This isn't one of your loaded questions to try and trap us, is it ?

    Why would you ask such a ridiculous question, "intelectualize sin away" ? Of course you can't do that. There is no similarity between the unborn, and somebody who "intelectualizes sin away".
     
  15. neal4christ

    neal4christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,815
    Likes Received:
    0
    Romans 1:18-23, NKJV
    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
    19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
    20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
    21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
    22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
    23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man - and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

    Honestly, we could talk about this topic to no end. But are any of you God? Do you not trust God to be just? I may not have all the answers you want, but I just trust God to be just in His judgement and dealing with people. He has revealed some form of truth of Himself to all people. Let Him be the judge, He will do what is right.

    Neal

    [ January 09, 2003, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
     
  16. The_Narrow_Road

    The_Narrow_Road
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."

    "For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

    There is no excuse for the unbeliever.
     
  17. sodzei

    sodzei
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    0
    Neal stole my thunder.

    Thank God we do not decide who goes to Heaven or hell. Ultimately we must trust... in God's justice and His mercy.
     
  18. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Romans 2:
    12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
    13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
    14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
    16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

    God has given every man a knowledge of the law. He has written it upon their hearts. So,
    1. A child is not accountable because he does not know the law, or as you said, right from wrong.

    2. A knowledge of sin is required before there is a need for salvation. True. Thus Paul says in verse 14, that those which do not have the law are a law unto themselves, which show the work of the law written in their hearts. Therefore they are without excuse.

    3. "If so does this excuse someone who has never developed a conscience." A person who has never developed a conscience would either be a baby or a mentally retarded person. Yes they would be excused.

    4. Would this excuse someone who has intellectualized sin away? No, not at all. That is simply a form of rebellion. It is how the theory of evolution came about. Huxley said: "I believe in evolution, not because it is credible, but because belief in God is far too incredible." He wanted an escape not to believe in God. He reasoned or intellectualized sin away.
    DHK
     
  19. neal4christ

    neal4christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,815
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry! :rolleyes: :D

    AMEN! [​IMG]

    Neal

    [ January 09, 2003, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
     
  20. Me2

    Me2
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    0
    God Cursed the family of mankind perfectly...and Adam represented all people born of flesh when he was cursed...everyone of the human race born after him from his blood.

    We were born into the flesh and blood family called, "the sinners".

    Gods curse has no loopholes...God is perfectly just...Everybody is cursed....No exceptions.

    But... theres mankind asking himself...is God just for condemning those whom He doesnt give faith to, or unveil there eyes and ears to hear the gospel.?
    Is He unjust to those who dont have the capacity to understand faith and how to use it properly ?..or give the intelligence to say the right things,.. to believe ?....

    How can anyone be saved without faith ?...which is also given by God in order to believe ?.

    But then theres His Perfect Curse...

    How does mankind sneak around the perfect curse of God ? ...
     

Share This Page

Loading...