Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Daniel David, Jun 5, 2004.
Can anyone give me Scriptural reasons to push for political activism among Christians?
Nope, I don't think there is one Daniel.
It's simple stewardship.
Come on PJ, you are one of the most. Surely you have a scriptural reason?
I could just as easily argue against your idea of stewardship. I am looking for Scriptural justification. If you can't give me any, perhaps you should rethink where your allegiance lies.
God established human government. God provides for us everything that we have. Government is established to protect our lives and property from injustice and the aggressor who would violate our God-given rights and possessions.
Does God admonish us to:
A) Take care of what we have and use it to His glory?
B) Let it go to waste?
This seems almost self-evident, and there are hundreds of scriptures to back it up.
DD, I think that maybe you skew the issue with your wording: "political activism". It seems to me that it is simply doing our civic duty to participate in self-government.
BTW, you left sort of a blank after your statement about me being "the most ______". I can think of all sorts of things folks might put in there. I wonder what you had in mind...
PJ, you aren't giving me scriptural reasons. You are actually making an argument outside of Scripture.
The Bible explicitly states that our citizenship is elsewere, that we are ambassadors, that we are passing through, and
2 Timothy 2:4
No soldier in active service entangles himself in the affairs of everyday life, so that he may please the one who enlisted him as a soldier.
The mission of the church is not the same as the government. So, based on the Scripture I have given, can you refute what I am saying?
Have you ever wondered why Peter and Paul said nothing about government except to obey it?
Btw, when I said you were one of the most, I was meaning the most politically active.
I don't have disdain toward you. You are misguided though.
Mat 22:15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
Mat 22:16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
Mat 22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
Mat 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
Mat 22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
Mat 22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
Mat 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Mat 22:22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
How about Esther and Nehemiah?
ballfan, that has to do with giving to Caesar what is his. That isn't about political activism in the least.
SMM, they were not part of the church. They were under a different economy. We don't live under a theocracy.
You asked for 'Biblical' did you not?
If all you want is N.T. Then you'll have to look at Jesus Himself whose in yer face sermons on the 'evil ones' own turf were legendary.
You see you can not separate a Godly life and your testimony in public.
Your Confession of Christ is not a mere verbal pronunciation stating He is Lord.
But, rather a life lived as a believer, publicly. Confession, Testimony, and Martyrdom went hand in hand.
And, anytime the precepts of God interact with this ungodly generation it will be called political activism.
The devil has gotten smarter in his efforts to block the effect of outspoken Godly ones by getting even believers to believe that there is a separation of Church Precepts and Public Life...
So, the *real* question isn't if I can support getting politically active...
But, can *you* support being 'inactive'?
I believe it was Edmond Burke who stated all that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to keep silent...
Paul stated it somewhat differently...
He said you have not yet resisted evil to the shedding of your own blood...
What was he thinking there? satan himself? Local ordinances that infringe against being a godly witness?
I don't know but he sure seems to be advocating an activity that if not understood as political sure had (and has) some definite political ramification.
Again, the only process, other than prayer and hiding in our churches, open tot he Christian to legally resist evil is the political process...
WE are told, indirectly, to resist evil even if it kills us... So, how can we avoid getting involved in a process that does not *yet* cost us our lives for being involved and resisting evil?
Tell, where do you see pacifism in Jesus or Paul...
Jesus came to bring fire and a sword...
No, let's not follow that example... Lets stay out of the limelight and hide in our churches...
And, while we may not be under the Old Covenant... It does reveal how God delivered His People in the past.
And, He is decidedly the God who changes not...
He may have made a way for Grace to reign, today. But, His basic ways have not changed.
Esther and Nehemiah remain a valid example.
I posted the entire passage figuring you could pick out the verses. They are verses 17 and 21. Jesus is talking about more than flipping a few coins the goverments way. Rendering unto Ceasar applies also in helping civil authority or even taking part in it if the system allows for it. So politically you render to Ceasar but not crossing the line by giving ceasar the things that rightfully belong to God.
ballfan, Jesus was talking about paying taxes. He said nothing more. Neither should you.
I would disagree. I feel certain Jesus was aware of the circumstances of the day. He certainly had a great social conscience. His teachings show that.
I think I'll expand my previous answer. The very life and teachings of Jesus show that he was a political activist himself. He was not exactly a conservative but looks to be more moderate to liberal in his actions and teaching. Perhaps a compassionate conservative might be the best fit. Its probably why Bush decided to use the term.
Jesus was not a conservative nor moderate. He was right on.
So the only Biblical mandate we have so far for political activism is where Jesus said to pay taxes.
All the rest is human reasoning.
Saying that, as long as one acts legally I can see nothing in scripture to prohibit "activism."
Daniel David does not want Scriptural reasons; he merely uses this question as bait. He has already made up his mind on this subject and nothing posted here will change his mind.
BTW, Where is the Scriptural support for using electricity in church?
I *still* have not heard a valid scriptural injunction towards pacivity...
I agree with Terry.
Yeah, we'd be *really* in trouble in SC this time of year if we went Church of Christ (musical instruments in the church) with electricity...
Thankfully, fire *is* mentioned... So, at least we could have a wood stove in the winter!
Back to activism...
The *best* activism is warfare prayer...
As people with dual citizenship we have both a right and responsibility to vote.
WE should seek the guidance of our 'home' embassy when we do so...
Becoming involved in the politcal process either as a campainer, candidate, or ardent supporter isn't for everyone... But, is part of being a citizen.
Where would we be if people like the Rutherford Institute and others like them didn't put feet to our prayers?
Have you, who advocate a hands-off approach, considered that?
Remember in this age of grace God does very little unilateral direct action because He has given this world to the age of the gentiles...
This means He expects us to pray and then act...
Israel did this often and won great battles...
And, while some call it a defeat... Jesus prayed and then acted. Which resulted in His voluntary death for us.
He could have called 12 legions of Angels. But, He didn't.
We are to resist evil even to the shedding of our own blood... Jesus already showed us the way in that regard...
Aren't you glad we live in a society where, as Christians, we still have a voice. Where we aren't hunted down and slaughtered (Indonesian and some other Muslim countries).
Dare we keep silent when we have been given an open forum?
Again, while not known to be a Christian, Edmond Burke said it best: 'All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to keep silent'.
If Christians are not good men... Then we are lost already... Let the Trib begin... We're all gonna die...
What does the God say rulers that He ordaind are?
Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do good and you will have its approval.
What does God say the government is?
Romans 13:4 For government is God's servant to you for good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God's servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong.
I would say as Christians we should do our part to make sure that only those who "are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad" are elected. Because government should be "God's servant to you for good", I would say that a government that supports evil and sin is not ordained by God, because it is not good. I would consider a government that supports abortion, homosexuality, gambling, etc a bad government that is a "terror to good conduct"
Netpub, I am not saying that we should not do our civic duty. We need to be the most responsible of all citizens.
However, Paul and Peter were silent on activism. They invested their time in the gospel, which has nothing to do with politics.