What is the Worst Bible Translation?

Because I'm defending the word of God - across all centuries, not just since 1611 - and I'm tired of those who limit God's word to only a 17th century translation implying we are doing Satan's bidding because we disagree with them.[BrianT]

"It matters not that I've told you I'm no scholar. It matters not that from the first time God spoke it, His Truth has continued into which ever "form" it was in. It matters not that the "originals" are no longer available, but that God did give us a Standard via the "originals" to guide us in this English-speaking era & because I feel He could come back at any given moment, there will NEVER be another "straight stick" to walk by...

So now, YOU tell us---WHICH Word of God are YOU defending???

 

You don't have to be a scholar to understand the problem KJV-only creates: if "only" the KJV is "the word of God", then nothing else is. Since there was no KJV prior to 1611, what other conclusion can there possibly be?

Earlier YOU said the way to tell if a stick is straight is to lay it next to one you know is straight. So how can you or anyone know the KJV is a straight stick? What stick prior to it can it be compared against? All we're asking you is to follow the same rule you're asking us to follow. Why does that bother you?

I am defending God's word in all good copies and translations, across all centuries.

 

So, Brian, by what measure do you determine if a so-called Bible version is a "good" copy or translation as you put it?

 

We have thousands of manuscripts and thousands of reliable translations across the centuries. If a Bible is faithful to the texts it is translating or copying from (ie. not "spun" like the JW's NWT), it will contain God's message, nay, it will be God's message - it is "good".

Why am I answering your questions, but you're not answering mine? Please help me out here: explain how God's word could exist prior to the KJV, if "only" the KJV is God's word, and everything prior to the KJV is different from the KJV.

If you think about it, you'll see that at its core, KJV-onlyism has created a condition that is exactly the opposite of what KJV-onlyism tries to cling to: the paradox of perfect preservation. If preservation was to be understood as KJV-onlyists understand it, the KJV would be a "perfect preservation" of SOMETHING. But it isn't. If the KJV "perfectly preserved" something, the KJV wouldn't even be needed, we'd already have the perfectly preserved word of God! Therefore, the KJV-O understanding of preservation is flawed from the get-go, and the entire KJV-O doctrine is built on this flaw.

The *very existence* of the KJV disproves KJV-onlyism.

Brian

 

Interesting take, Brian. It has long been observed that KJVOs do not hold to an orthodox, conservative view of Biblical preservation. You seem to have caught that also.

[ July 12, 2002, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

KJV only is a tool of Satan! How's that for a straight stick?! What you are saying Granny cannot be defended from the Word of God, even the King James. It should greatly concern you that the position you have taken cannot be proven from the God's own word's. I just guess it is easier to be a martyr for a lost, unbiblical cause then it is to admit you're wrong.

 

It should greatly concern you that the position you have taken cannot be proven from the God's own word's.[go2church]

"And it should greatly concern YOU that the position YOU have taken CAN be proven from the KJBible!

 

Hello brethren you knew it wouldn't be long until I showed up... Tsk... Tsk... Tsk... You should listen to your Granny Gumbo who said:

I won't go into detail here but jump down to the Calvinist/Arminian forum because I am starting a thread on the doctrines of Origen and Augustine. The Primitive Baptist brethren don't hold to the KJV for a personal reason but for a biblical historical reason. We can trace our doctrinal lineage through the Anabaptist and Waldensian line who were responsible for the KJV. The pure stream Granny spoke of came from these brethren who doctrinally speaking were our brethren and our doctrinal ancestors!... Brother Glen

 

If the stream was so pure, Granny should have no problem finding a straight stick in it, by which to see if the KJV is a straight stick. Granny should have no problem showing us what the KJV has "perfectly preserved".

But alas, since nothing in the "pure" stream matches the KJV 100%, the dilemma remains, no matter how many times she avoids it.

Brian

 

[ July 13, 2002, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]

 

How ya doing today, BrianT? Great! I don't know what ya be calling whatever it is ya trying to defend, but does it have a 2Timothy 2:15 in it? (Ya know, some do omit entire verses, or so I've heard!) Well, in my old faithful KJBible, it has a tiny little word called "s-t-u-d-y"...does yours? [Look & See] We're COMMANDED to STUDY our KJBible!

Now, how ya gonna find that straight stick that your obviously having a problem with unless you 'git wid da program' boy! Ah come on, now, humor the ol' granny. Where did God come from? Answer me that. He just was, right? Where did man come from? Not from no monkey, for sure! As God passed things on down, it was always pure. Man is the one who messes things up. God gives us His pure Words in this Book I am defending for this day & time & He don't like nobody monkeying around with it one bit.

There ya go! Straight thinking and plain speaking---"He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." John 8:47 I am not the one with a problem! I do not hesitate for one minute to call my authorized KJBible the Word of God. It has stood the test of time & I have never feared that it'd ever fail me. Can you say the same about yours?

 

I'm fine Granny, thanks for asking.

Yes. All my Bibles have that verse, and I have studied.

Granny, you have it backwards. I *know* where the stick is, and I use it all the time to compare against the KJV. YOU are the one who doesn't use it, let alone know where it is. KJV-onlyism simply refuses to find it, because finding it would destroy KJV-onlyism. Well, I prefer to stand for the truth, even if it makes me a little less comfortable. Do you?

OK, Granny, humor this young whipper-snapper. What was the pure Bible in 1605? If there was one, the KJV should not have been produced to "fix" it. If there wasn't one, your understanding of scriptural preservation is wrong because it doesn't work before 1611. There are only two possibilities, and both make KJV-onlyism impossible. Surely you understand this simple concept.

Good. You shouldn't hesitate, and neither do I. We are not debating the KJV being the word of God. We both agree that it is. We are debating the KJV being the "only" word of God.

Yes, even more so. The KJV came out in 1611, which spans the last 19.5% of church history. I read the Geneva (among other versions), which came out in 1560 (mine is a photo-reprint), spanning 22% of church history. It has stood the test of time 2.5% longer than the KJV. It has never failed me. Therefore, according to your rules, it must be superior to the KJV. I say, without hesitation, that it is "the word of God".

I also believe my Wycliffe (1382) reprint to be "the word of God". Wycliffe's translation is 229 years older than the KJV.

But these things don't prove anything. If "standing the test of time" is how we determine if something is the word of God, then the KJV wasn't the word of God when it was produced! It had to "stand the test of time" before it could be called the word of God. So when did the KJV finally meet this requirement and become the word of God?

[ July 13, 2002, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]

 

Well, obviously I haven't been here for awhile. I usualy no better than to go back to something thatI posted in this forrum, because I can kinda guess what some people are going to say.
Someone said something about me not being "Spiritual enough." Well, as Granny said, I'm 14 and been saved 3 years as of this coming tuesday. I have never claimed to know a lot. Compared to what the Saviour knows, I am nothing. I don't claim to have fancy degrees like some of you preachers, and I haven't been to some big seminary, but I AM saved by God's wonderous grace! And that's good enough for me. If some of you have a problem with the idea of me saying this, then I'm sorry. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings or offend you, but I STAND FIRM for what I know to be true. THE KJV IS GOD'S INSPIRED< INFALLABLE, INERRENT WORD OF GOD! IT IS THE SAME YESTERDAY,NOW,AN FOREVER! NNE CAN DESTROY IT, NNE CAN DEFILE IT. IT IS SETTLED IN HEAVEN!
I understand the KJV was translated from greek and hebrew, but don't you think the Holy Spirit could have been there in 1611 just like He is with us?
A new version comes out all the time. Have you ever wondered why? One simple answer:"It aint the BIBLE!" folks, believe what you want, but you can't hide the truth.
The devil believes in salvation and God and all that, and he hates the KJV and wants to destroy it, and he uses other versions to confuse people.
I don't care what anyone says, I will stand for the truth for the rest of my life.
I know some of you are going to be absolutly furious after reading this, so that is why after this, I'm not coming back to read the responses. I also know some people may think I'm young and ignorant. Yep, your right. But I'm saved. I know the Saviour, and I know where I stand and by God's grace, I won't compromise.
This is where I stand. Take it or leave it.
Now as I said before, I apologize if you were hurt by this post, cause that was never my intention, but I had to state the truth. In these times someone has to stand for it.
IMHO,Abby

 

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
Well, in my old faithful KJBible, it has a tiny little word called "s-t-u-d-y"...does yours? [Look & See] We're COMMANDED to STUDY our KJBible!

"BrianT, silly boy~I didn't ask ya if your English bible had that "verse" in it, I asked did it have the word S-T-U-D-Y in it. Well, does it?

Take the word "Hell"...I can go all the way thru' mine & it's the same word spelled h.e.l.l(not sheoel or hades or grave)---how about yours? Line upon line, etc...everything matches.

So, ya use lots of sticks! My my! Now, I really do understand! I use only one~ The Word of God & it's ONLY the Word of God. I am KJOnly & I am ONLY KJ. Checkmate!

 

Actually you did. At the top of this page, first paragraph you asked "but does it have a 2Timothy 2:15 in it?"

Again, yes.

Again, yes.

I also have a Bible that uses "Passover" all the way through, and not once mismatches "Easter". How about yours?

Granny, earlier you said you need at least 2 sticks (or else how do you compare to see if your stick is straight?)

"Therefore as S. Augustine saith, that variety of Translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the Scriptures" - The KJV translators.

The "ONLY" word of God? But it came out in 1611! Didn't people have the word of God in 1605? What of my Geneva, that I'm holding in my hand right now? What of scripture before that?

Why do I answer all your questions, but you answer none of mine?

Brian

 

Actually you did. At the top of this page, first paragraph you asked "but does it have a 2Timothy 2:15 in it?"
</font>[/QUOTE]ew, i guess GrannyG got checkmated on this one.

Jn 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

GrannyG, You have a perfect opportunity to win this debate hands down... just answer those simple questions. "What was the perfect Word of God in English before 1611? and Why was the KJV created if the perfect Word of God was already in existence?"

BTW, How do you personally define the phrase "Word of God"?...and obviously I am looking for something more than a thoughtless retort like "My good ol' KJ Bible, boy".

Did God withhold His perfect Word for 1500 years before inspiring the KJV translators? Were believers left without the perfect Word of God through the most difficult and bloody years of the Reformation?

...so, what is your answer?

[ July 14, 2002, 01:57 AM: Message edited by: Scott J ]

 

Forever settled in heaven I sent your questions to Elder Webb and when I receive his answer I will post it!... Granny Gumbo and saved by Grace 1999 are sticking to their guns as I will also do until I receive an answer from Elder Webb... Then I will answer! No matter who it benefits I will answer truthfully!... Brother Glen

 

FYI "hell" is pagan Germanic term meaning a part of the 'underworld' from which one may progress upward through 'branches,' like on a tree.

Thankfully scripture differentiates between Hebrew sheol {which includes the presence of God-- Psalm 139}, Aramaic ge-enna, a burning dump, and Greek hade,s. the place of the physically dead in torment {Luke 16} which will be thrown into the Lake of Fire {Revelation 20:14}.

One example of the mixing of these terms which leads to bad theology is I Corinthians 15:55, which the KJV reads: "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" The KJV renders "hades" as "grave" here, and this has been used by 7th Day Adventists or others who believe in 'soul sleep' that "hell" simply means "the grave," a place of unconscious existence, instead of a place of torment for now.

 

I'm sorry, Mr.ScottJ, that you feel this is a "debate"...I do not think of it as "doing battle", rather, I am "defending"...My beliefs, my Faith, my life, my everything. It's already won.

I see in your profile that you have listed you are "searching"...well, keep on keeping on. But if you had the right roadmap to begin with & used it faithfully, you'd be able to see more clearly now. Unlike my "preference" for a short bottle of Coca-Cola, I WILL drink Pepsi. But I will NEVER use another "brand" to read God's Words.

I don't know what they used back in those days. I'm sure it was from the perfect one that was used to translate into something us English-speaking people of today could use. Whatever the KJBible came from, I trust that completely to be the case. God has inspired & preserved his words for HIS annointed-His children-and that lamp is the KJBible. Ps.132:17 & Ps.119:105.

I am sorry that y'all feel I am wrong. I know with all my heart, I'm not. If I am, what harm is there? BUT-if you are-there's eternity to pay. I don't fault anyone for what that choose to read; yes, I think it's sad. There is no magic formula, just as I tell these "onenesses" around me, there is no magic formula(Acts2:38)...

The only reason I jumped on this bandwagon was to defend my cyber-granddaughter's spirituality that was attacked. Like I said early on, this is like arguing whether or not there is a sky. May God lead you always to TRUTH. Patricia(granny)