What is your church doing...

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Pennsylvania Jim, Sep 28, 2001.

  1. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim
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    On another thread that has been closed there was considerable debate about abortion. Twoce I asked the question:

    What is YOUR church doing about abortion in America?

    There was only one response, which basically confirmed in a round about way that his particular church was largely ignoring the problem. We all talk a lot about how bad it is but I'm trying to find if there are churchs who are DOING something about it.

    Any takers?
     
  2. ellis

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    We support, in conjunction with several other churches in our area, a home which cares for unwed pregnant women, mainly teenagers, who struggle with the decision of abortion. When they come to this home, they are given counseling to stay and have the baby and give it up for adoption. The home provides as comfortable a living environment as it can, including good nutrition, pre-natal medical care, daily encouragement in a Christian atmosphere and environment. The girls work at odd jobs that help defray some of the expenses of operation and also receive two to four hours of educational instruction aimed at helping them maintain their studies during the pregnancy, so that going back to school afterward remains a viable option. There is also counseling on a regular basis after the birth and adoption.

    This home is able to save about 50-60 babies each year, which seems like a small number, but it is something. It is expensive to operate, and has caused us to make some changes in our budget priorities to keep up our level of support and, in fact, expand it.

    We've calculated that if we could get half of the churches in our area involved in similar ministries, we could have dozens of these homes, and save thousands of lives in our area each year.

    Unfortunately, Jim, most Christians seem to be more caught up in lip service. They will click their tongues and point their fingers at the tragedy of abortion and blame it on the government but won't commit a dime to do something about it. I don't understand this at all. The Christian book-music-video business in this country adds up to billions of dollars spent every year. And we spend billions more on facilities that stand empty five to six days a week. Yet we won't spend more than a few cents to minister to people who really need it.

    Oh, by the way, this ministry is ecumenical. Episcopalians, Methodists, Orthodox and Disciples of Christ churches are also involved. And the local Catholic diocese also has a similar ministry home in our area. That might pose a problem for some Baptists, I guess.

    [ September 28, 2001: Message edited by: ellis ]
     
  3. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Praise God, Ellis, for the 50-60 per year!!! Let's see, 60 X the number of churches in America...
     
  4. Nicole

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    Jim, our church sponsers a place called the Alpha Womens Center. Sort of like the one mentioned above. Women come in who are unsure of what they are going to do with their pregnancy. Most of them come in with the mindset that they are going to abort. Many women from our church volunteer there...answering phones, counseling etc. The clients are shown a video which shows them in detail what their baby looks like at the different stages...they get a very clear picture that this is a LIFE...not just an embryo or "fetus" They are counseled, and I can't even begin to tell you the number of women who have accepted Christ through this program. They are given a bible and although it's not a place that provides room and board, they are on a kind of merit system. They earn baby clothes, diapers and formula and that sort of thing for learning bible verses. They come in quite frequently throughout the pregnancy and even afterward for bible studies and such. They are also assisted with prenatal care. As a matter of fact, I just donated a ton of clothes maternity and baby clothes. We just had a fund raising banquet last week for this organization. Don't quote me on this, but I believe it's listed in the phone book under planned parenting (not sure, I beleive that's what someone there told me) Because of this, they do get a lot of calls from women looking for abortion clinics. Most of the women who call or come in already pretty much feel like abortion is their only option. As soon as they feel like they have some support, someone behind them, it really does make them stop and think about what they are doing. I wish there were more places out there like this..although some of them do go on to have abortions, many of them decide to keep their babies, or if not that, then to give them up for adoption.
     
  5. Pastor Larry

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
    There was only one response, which basically confirmed in a round about way that his particular church was largely ignoring the problem. We all talk a lot about how bad it is but I'm trying to find if there are churchs who are DOING something about it.

    Any takers?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Amazing to me that you think the answer is somewhere other than the truth of God's word applied to the human heart. Do you think there will be any solution to abortion apart from the salvation of souls? Surely you have not sunk that low have you.

    My church is doing something about the abortion problem, something that will actually work. What are you doing that is going to accomplish anything? I am all for legislation but that is out of my hands. I do not have a problem with churches that have abortion counseling and homes provided they are centered in the local church and biblically centered. We do not have the resources to do that. What we do have the resources to do is preach the life changing gospel of Jesus Christ which is the only answer with lasting effects.
     
  6. Ernie Brazee

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    We are doing what some here call legalism!

    That is right, we preach righteous living that we can be vessles the Lord can use to win souls, that they then will abstain from illicit sex. If the heart isn't changed all our efforts to change the world are vain, for the heart is exceeding wicked.

    Abotrion isn't the problem, the problem is the hearts of God's people. They want to be called Christian but still enjoy ALL the pleasures of the world, i.e. movies booze, cigarettes, losse living. I have seen many post's on this board defending all these. Where is the salt...Oh! forgot! it is legalistic to call a people to righteous livin!

    Ernie

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pastor Larry:


    Amazing to me that you think the answer is somewhere other than the truth of God's word applied to the human heart. Do you think there will be any solution to abortion apart from the salvation of souls? Surely you have not sunk that low have you.

    My church is doing something about the abortion problem, something that will actually work. What are you doing that is going to accomplish anything? I am all for legislation but that is out of my hands. I do not have a problem with churches that have abortion counseling and homes provided they are centered in the local church and biblically centered. We do not have the resources to do that. What we do have the resources to do is preach the life changing gospel of Jesus Christ which is the only answer with lasting effects.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
     
  7. John Wells

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    Witnessing one-on-one and praying! ;)

    [ September 29, 2001: Message edited by: John Wells ]
     
  8. myreflection26

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    What alcolhol, movies and ciggaretts have to do with abortion is beyond me, but in answer to the question.

    Our church supports our local christian pregnancy center in all sorts of functions. Do you realize it really doesn't take that much in actually lending a hand? Its good to preach on it, but most people want to see action and not just words.

    It makes a big difference if a church can so much as even have different members bring in baby clothes, food, diapers, and stuff of this nature to donate to the pregnancy centers so they can continue to offer an alternitive to pregnate women. It also doesn't take much to offer counseling, I am a counselor you don't have to be "certified" just know how to love and know what God says about abortion. Educating others is also very helpful. Many ladies have who have abortions really have no clue as to what happens to their baby or to them, educate them.

    There are so many simple things which can be done in helping and you don't have to have serious bucks to do it either. Remember God doesn't call the one he qualifies, he qualifies the one he calls. All he wants is your availability to do the work and he'll provide the means.

    Sue ;)
     
  9. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Thanks Myreflection, Nicole, sounds like good work.

    To some of the others, I am glad that your churches preach the life-saving Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is truly the only solution to man's sinful heart.

    Now...

    In the middle of the night you get a panicked call from your next door neighbor. A maniac has broken into their house with the intention of killing them, and they need help.

    You say:

    "The only answer to the sin problem is salvation through Jesus Christ. Obviously the man trying to kill you doesn't know Him. In our church we preach it every Sunday, it's too bad for you that we missed this guy. Good night."

    Think about it.
     
  10. Pastor Larry

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
    Now...

    In the middle of the night you get a panicked call from your next door neighbor. A maniac has broken into their house with the intention of killing them, and they need help.

    You say:

    "The only answer to the sin problem is salvation through Jesus Christ. Obviously the man trying to kill you doesn't know Him. In our church we preach it every Sunday, it's too bad for you that we missed this guy. Good night."

    Think about it.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Apples and oranges ...
     
  11. Pennsylvania Jim

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  12. Pastor Larry

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    1. Because one is legal and one is not.

    2. Because if someone breaks into a house, it is justifiable self-defense. If someone aborts a child, it is not justifiable self-defense.

    3. If someone breaks into a house and threatens a life, the victim will likely not be calling the pastor for advice. However, if they do, I will tell them to defend themselves and their family by whatever means necessary. If possible I will go to their house to help them. They have legal recourse. If someone calls me for advice on abortion, I will say in no uncertain terms that it would be murder and disobedience to God. I will go to their house to pray and counsel with them. However, neither I nor they have legal recourse in the event of an abortion.

    I agree that both scenarios are wrong before God. However, the laws of the land are different and we must work within those laws.

    Let's turn the question around. What do you think churches should be doing about abortion?
     
  13. Dr. Bob

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:
    We are doing what some here call legalism! That is right, we preach righteous living . . . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Time to come on down off the soap box, Ernie. Don't know ANYONE who calls preaching about adultery/illicit sex "legalism". That is Bible and should be preached, and often!

    But the unsaved minds can't understand the things of the spirit because those things are discerned BY the Spirit within the believer. We can preach morality, but mark it down - that will not have the desired effect.

    It is the Grace of God in the heart of the person that will affect the change. So #1, we need to preach salvation by Grace to see the inward change that will result in the outward change.

    And #2 we need to realize that MOST (broad is the way leading to destruction) will not accept this, so we must support adoption programs, crisis pregnancy centers, educational programs - ANYTHING to try to help pick up the pieces of the "mess".

    Our church of course does both. Strong preaching on grace that will change lives, and full support of our crisis pregnancy center in town (including all training sessions done in our church by our own folk as part of our support).

    [We put up the railing at the top of the cliff and man the ambulance at the bottom.]
     
  14. Nicole

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    Amen Dr. Bob! That is exactly what our church does. We can tell them the Gospel, tell them of God's perfect love, Inform them of the consequences of their actions, but, unfortunatly, we can't accept salvation for them. God made each one of us with a free will. I wish there were a way to stop abortion. The sad fact is that there isn't...not until God comes back and reigns over the earth. Not that I believe it will ever happen, but even if they were to make abortion illegal, it would still continue. Like mentioned above, it is an issue with man's heart. Just as Bush said about other countries: You're either for us, or for terrorism. Same goes with God, We're either FOR him or against him (FOR satan) there is no in between, no compromise. Do we really expect anything above abortion from Satan? I sure don't. All we can do is try recruit for God's team.
     
  15. myreflection26

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    Dr. Bob,

    AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!!

    I totally agree in preaching on righteous living, BUT the key word here is ACTIONS. Can we put our hands and feet where our mouths are and show others we really do believe what we are saying?

    In helping the pregnancy center I've learned a great deal in what motivates many ladies to have abortions. A great number of them are simply scared because in thier eyes they have no one to turn to for help and all they see is they will soon have a big responsibility and not enough money. In the case for teens they fear they will never have careers or a life once they give birth to a child. All this thinking must be put to rest with ease in thier minds knowing that Yes they did wrong, Yes they made a mistake, but God does love them, he cares about what happens to them and there are others who do also.

    I honestly believe that we would see less abortions if the church would actively begin "adopting" ladies like this and helping them out, making sure that they are provided with food, clothing and basic needs so they don't feel alone. Obviously we can't chose for them, but we can help them to make good choices by loving, supporting and reassuring that they are not alone and will be helped as much as possible.

    Another thing, when counseling a young lady always refere to the unborn child as a human being, instills in her mind that she is carrying a human not an "it". Also, they need to know God forgives and loves them. Forgiveness is a major key factor.

    Sorry, here I go preaching. This is a very heavy on my heart topic, I'm as pro-life as they come. I don't believe there is a good reason to have an abortion no matter what the situation is, that is why I go out of my way to change any girls mind.

    Sue
     
  16. Jefferson

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    My church allowed me to "body guard" a 4 foot by 8 foot full-color, bloody photograph of an aborted baby (the Malachi photo). Our church sits on the busiest road in our town. The city shut us down. We took them to court and won. After about 6 more displays of the photograph (and several nose to nose screaming matches) some lawyer in town physically ripped the photo in two, destroying it. Oh well, back to court.
     
  17. myreflection26

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    Jefferson,

    Wow, but the question is, is your church also reaching out to the pregnate mother in trouble and no place to turn?

    I can't say that I actually agree with the church's choice to display such a graphic photo for everyone to see. Keep in mind that even young children who don't completely understand this stuff is seeing this too and that is not so wise. I have a video of pictures which are extremely graphic of aborted children that I am very cautious of my son seeing, I won't let him see it at the tenger age he is.

    Your church needs to try to keep this in mind when displaying this photo or any graphic photo of abortion. I can completely understand the rage of outsiders when they see this type of thing, plus it won't be doing much good for the testimony of the church. Not trying to offend you here, I'm just seeing this as a stumbling block.

    Sue
     
  18. Footwasher

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:
    That is right, we preach righteous living that we can be vessles the Lord can use to win souls, that they then will abstain from illicit sex. If the heart isn't changed all our efforts to change the world are vain, for the heart is exceeding wicked.

    Abotrion isn't the problem, the problem is the hearts of God's people. They want to be called Christian but still enjoy ALL the pleasures of the world, i.e. movies booze, cigarettes, losse living.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Amen! Well said.
     
  19. Pennsylvania Jim

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:


    Abotrion isn't the problem, the problem is the hearts of God's people.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ernie, that's easy for you to say because you aren't one of the precious little ones being ripped apart and killed as you read this. I submit that to the ones in that situation ABORTION IS THE PROBLEM.
     
  20. Aaron

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
    Now...

    In the middle of the night you get a panicked call from your next door neighbor. A maniac has broken into their house with the intention of killing them, and they need help.

    You say:

    "The only answer to the sin problem is salvation through Jesus Christ. Obviously the man trying to kill you doesn't know Him. In our church we preach it every Sunday, it's too bad for you that we missed this guy. Good night."

    Think about it.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    As I was reading through this thread I was thinking of posting something just like that in response when I found your post.

    Excellent, sound, just and impeccable reasoning. The only reason we make a difference between abortion and any other type of homicide is we don't really believe they are people.
     

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