What must one do to be saved???

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by hph, May 30, 2002.

  1. hph

    hph
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    It is easy to see alot of people that are using this site are not saved.Despite all other issues nothing really matters if we dont have this one right.Lets explore this issue from scripture and see where people really stand.
     
  2. Frank

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    hph:
    The question " What must I do to be saved" or a form of this question is asked three times in the Bible. ( Acts 16:30;9:6;2:38). The inspired question teaches us the following:
    1. Something is to be done.( What)
    2. The something is a divine imperative.( Must- Greek word Dei.
    3.Their is a divine imperative responsiblity by the individual to do it.( I personal pronoun).
    4.There is a result for taking the personal responsibility of doing the divine imperative. To be saved).
    5.Obedience to the divine imperative action is a personal responsibility for the one who desires to be saved.
    Jesus said that men must know the truth to be set free.( Jn. 8:32, James 1:18).
    Jesus said, men should repent and believe the gospel.( Mk. 1:15).
    Jesus said, men must believe he is the one who has the power to save. ( Jn. 8:24;5:39).
    Jesus said, men must repent of their sins. ( Lk, 13:3,5).
    Jesus said, men must confess him . ( Mat. 10:32).
    Jesus said, men must be baptized. ( Mk. 16:16). This is the grace of God that brings salvation to all men. ( Titus 2:11,12, Eph. 2:8,9, Gal. 3:26-29). Have a good day. [​IMG]
    Frank
     
  3. SolaScriptura

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    To simplify Frank's answer: Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

    That's Peter's answer and I'm sure Peter knew what he was talking about. Now, obviously these men to whom Peter spoke already believed for they had asked "What shall we do?" and Peter gave the above answer. It is also obvious from Acts 8:36-37 that prior to baptism one must confess his/her faith in Christ. Therefore we find that to enter the covenant of grace one must:

    (Believe), (Repent), (Confess & be baptized)

    Why is it this way? 2 Thess. 1:8 says God will take vengeance on them that obey not the gospel. That being the case, we certainly want to obey the gospel, but there are questions that must be answered:

    (1)What is the gospel?
    (2)How can a man obey the gospel?

    Primarily, the gospel is the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ. How do we obey that?

    Death - in repentance we crucify self-will
    Burial - in water baptism we are buried with Christ
    Resurrection - we raise up out of the water a new creature (Rom 6) and child of God (Gal 3:26-27) to "walk in newness of life" (Rom 6) and obey righteousness. (Rom 6:16)

    Peter sums up the whole thing in Acts 2:38

    Repent [crucify self-will], and be baptized [buried with Christ] every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and [being in the likeness of Christ's resurrection] ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    A prayerful consideration of Romans 6 (the entire chapter) and Galatians 3:26-27 is vital to a proper understanding of this topic.

    [ May 31, 2002, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: SolaScriptura ]
     
  4. Sularis

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    ACtually Sola - I came across a little article on Acts 2:38 - It was in the Macgregor Ministries booklets they send out. Normally I ignore them, but I picked it up and it had an article on Acts 2:38

    The tenses dont seem to link up the way you state

    I rechecked it out them tenses are tricky things

    May whoever invented the concept of Aorist please either have repented of that sin, or be burning in hellfire
    But they do appear to be right in their theory that Baptism is not linked directly timewise before or even to in the sentence as a direct concept chain.

    Here's the link

    http://www.macgregorministries.org/cult_groups/united_pentecostals.html

    Enjoy
     
  5. Mrs KJV

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    remember the thief on the cross was not baptized, please don't mix grace with works. We are to rely fully on the finish work of Christ on the cross. Baptism is a symbol of what has happened in the heart of the believer and identifys him with Christ local church. [​IMG]
     
  6. SolaScriptura

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    Julie:

    This you cannot prove. Read John 4 - Jesus baptized more disciples than John (or rather the apostles did it for him). You cannot prove that the thief was not one of them.

    I'm not! Baptism is not a work - it is part of grace. It if a free gift to believers whereby they may enter the tomb with Christ by faith! Romans 6:4 'Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death...'

    Baptism is also a part of faith. Notice: (Acts 2:41) 'Then they that gladly received his word were baptized...' -- Those who receive God's Word will be baptized, therefore I know that those who refuse baptism have not received God's Word - they are unbelievers.

    We do! Baptism does not deny Christ's work, but accesses it! Notice 1 Peter 3:21 "...baptism doth also now save us...by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" -- Notice that Peter says baptism saves, but then quickly adds that it does not saved by the power of the water, but by the power of Christ's resurrection! It accesses the work of Christ on Calvary!

    This is true, but baptism is more than a symbol. Notice: (Gal 3:27) 'For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.' -- Baptism not only symbolizes our union with Christ, but also puts us into Christ and enables us to put on Christ. You cannot be in Christ nor put on Christ without baptism!

    It does even more than that! Notice again: (Acts 2:41) 'Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.' -- Added to who? Acts 2:47 says 'And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.' -- At baptism, a person is added by the Lord to the church. No one joins the church, but they are added to it by the Lord through baptism!

    Sularis:

    Your website buddies teach that "for the remission of your sins" refers only to repentance. Calvin taught that it refered only to baptism. Both theories are wrong: it refers to both repentance & baptism, and you don't need to look at any Greek to see it. "Repent & be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" -- that's definately both.

    [ May 31, 2002, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: SolaScriptura ]
     
  7. DHK

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    This you cannot prove. Read John 4 - Jesus baptized more disciples than John (or rather the apostles did it for him). You cannot prove that the thief was not one of them.
    </font>[/QUOTE]This is so hilarious it is almost sad. John the Baptist would not baptize anyone if they would not bring forth "fruits meet for repentance." In other words if they had not repented he would not baptize them. But you say that the Lord Jesus Christ would baptize an unrepentant criminal, a thief who admitted that he was justly getting what he deserved for his crimes. He didn't repent until he saw Christ on the cross. If Christ baptized him, Christ would be guilty of baptizing unrepentant criminals. Your view of Jesus Christ is pretty low.
    DHK
     
  8. SolaScriptura

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    Can your prove to me that the thief did not repent and get baptized by either John or the apostles and then lose his faith and regain it on the cross? If not, then stop laughing!
     
  9. Bro. Curtis

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    I usually agree with you, Sola dude, but not this time.

    Baptism does not save. John 3:16 proves it.
     
  10. Frank

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    Sola:
    AMEN!I appreciate your short version of my answer. [​IMG]
    Frank
     
  11. SolaScriptura

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    Mr. Curtis:

    Apologize to the apostle Peter, not me. 1 Peter 3:21

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him SHOULD not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Anyone who says he believes and yet refuses baptism is obviously lying, for if he beleived Jesus he would also obey Jesus. "Why call ye me 'Lord, Lord' and do not the things which I say?"

    Furthemore: Why does the Recieved Text say "should" rather than "will"? Because those who believe should be saved, but those who obey will be saved.(read Hebrews 5:9)

    Thank you Frank. Frank, I'm tired of discussing baptism, but how can I discuss anything else with those who don't understand it? Paul says that faith, repentance, and baptism, laying on of hands, the resurrection and eternal judgement are the elementary principles of the doctrine of Christ. How can any man "go on unto perfection" without understanding them? And how can I pretend that a person is in the kingdom when Jesus says "you must be born of water & the spirit or you cannot enter"? Am I to act as though those who have not entered the kingdom are somehow in the kingdom? I should think not. Certainly this issue must be tackled first.

    [ May 31, 2002, 02:30 AM: Message edited by: SolaScriptura ]
     
  12. Bro. Curtis

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    I believe baptism is God's will for the new believer. But I don't believe the act saves. Jesus saves.

    Baptism is a public statement of faith, purely symbolic.

    But I do love your zeal!!! Keep it up.
     
  13. SolaScriptura

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    Jesus saves! This is true! But can't Jesus as he sees fit to save? I say He can and He does, and it was He who said "he that beleives & is baptized shall be saved" and it was He who told Peter to command the people on Pentecost saying "Repent & be baptized." So, I do not believe that baptism saves me apart from Jesus, but that Jesus saves me through baptism in which I contact His blood, being baptized into Him according to Galatians 3:27. Now, where is Jesus' blood? I say that it is the same place that any man's blood is! Just as your blood is in you, Jesus' blood is in Jesus, so if I can get into Jesus I can get into His saving blood. But, how can I get into Jesus? That's simple!
    "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ..." (Gal 3:27) Baptism puts a man INTO Christ where that precious blood is!
     
  14. DHK

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    So let me get this straight. The Jesus that you believe in, (that knew all about Nathanael while he was yet under the fig tree), was so naive in His assessment of this thief that He could not tell whether he had sincerely repented or not.

    The Christ I know is more omniscient than that:
    John 2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
    DHK
     
  15. SolaScriptura

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    Does sincere repentance mean that a person will never backslide? Did not Jesus command some in the churches of Asia to repent? Now, if they were in the church they had obviously repented before but he commands repentance again - why? Because it is possbile to slip up and need repentance again! Have you ever read your Bible?
     
  16. Frank

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    Sola:
    I understand your position perfectly. You have stated it well. In my humble opinion, the frist principles are needed now more than ever.People are destroyed for the lack of knowledge.( Hosea 4:6). I have learned from your discussions on this one subject that are very important. I trust you will continue your current methodology of teaching the truth on this subject.
    From these discusssions, I myself,have made an open proposition to any preacher in my area. The proposition reads: The Bible teaches that water baptism is essential to the salvation of the sinner. I have affirmed and signed this proposition. I do not have a negative or denial as of yet. The second part of the proposition is as follows: The sinner is saved before and without water baptism. I have signed the negative or denial. I will be looking for an affirmative. I have taken this action as a result of the many things people teach as truth in this matter that are not so. Moreover, this is multiplied amongst the various denominational preachers. I am simply giving them the opportunity to prove their doctrine.( IThes. 5:21). [​IMG]
    Frank
     
  17. Frank

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    Sola:
    You asked a very provocative question. Have you ever read your Bible? Some religious bodies had prefer you did not. Let the powers that be interpret it for you. Others rely on Well, my pastor said so and so. My Mother and Dad were this or that. It was good enough for them I guess it is good enough for me. In each of these cases, the individual has forgotten his personal responsibility to God to know the truth that sets men free.( Jn.8:31,32).
    This is why we have the problem with the first principles of the oracles of God. The lack of sound Bible study that rightly divides the word of truth.( II Tim. 2:15).
    Frank
     
  18. Star

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    Actually didn't the theif on the cross later revile Him? Mathew 15:32 shows they reviled Him. Is there also another verse concerning this too? (Sorry don't have my scriptures on hand here)

    In Him Kim

    [ May 31, 2002, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: Star ]
     
  19. DHK

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    Your argument is from complete silence and is totally illogical. Let me give you a parallel.
    We know that Jesus dined with Mary and Martha.

    John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.
    2 There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him.

    So we know that Jesus dined with Mary and Martha, just as we know that Jesus baptized (though it was not he but his disciples that baptized).
    This is our first premise.
    Secondly we KNOW that they had dinosaur legs for their meal.
    We know that because we have just as much evidence that they ate dinosaur legs as we do that Jesus and his disciples baptized the thief--zilch.

    Your argument is from silence. It is illogical. You cannot argue from silence. You cannot prove anything from silence. You cannot read into the Scriptures things that are not there, such as Mary and Martha served Jesus Ostrich eggs for desert. They had Turkish coffee to go with their meal. And the great thing about this all is: YOU CAN'T PROVE ME WRONG!!
    DHK
     
  20. susanpet

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    It still seems like the blood of Jesus is not enough for some people. Anything you add to the free gift is of works and you can't deny that! You are absolutely not saved by works. Abraham was justified by faith.

    Romans 4:2--FOR IF ABRAHAM WERE JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, HE HATH WHEREOF TO GLORY; BUT NOT BEFORE GOD. 3.- FOR WHAT SAITH THE SCRIPTURE? ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS COUNTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. 4.- NOW TO HIM THAT WORKETH IS THE REWARD NOT RECKONED OF GRACE, BUT OF DEBT. 5.- BUT TO HIM THAT WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH ON HIM THAT JUSTIFIED THE UNGODLY, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
    ROMANS 5:1- THEREFORE BEING JUSTIFIED BY FAITH, WE HAVE PEACE WITH GOD THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST; 2.-BY WHOM WE HAVE ACCESS BY FAUTH INTO THIS GRACE WHEREIN WE STAND, AND REJOICE IN HOPE OF THE GLORY OF GOD. 9.- MUCH MORE THEN, BEING NOW JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD, WE SHALL BE SAVED FROM WRATH THROUGH HIM.

    ROMANS 10:2 FOR I BEAR THEM RECORD THAT THEY HAVE A ZEAL OF GOD, BUT NOT ACCORDING TO KNOWLEDGE. 3.- FOR THEY BEING IGNORANT OF GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND GOING ABOUT TO ESTABLISH THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, HAVE NOT SUBMITTED THEMSELVES UNTO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.

    THIS IS THE PLAN OF SALVATION

    ROMANS 10: 8-13
    BUT WHAT SAITH IT? THE WORD IS NIGH THEE, EVEN IN THY MOUTH, AND IN THY HEART: THAT IS, THE WORD OF FAITH, WHICH WE PREACH;
    THAT IF THOU SHALT CONFESS WITH THY HEART THE LORD JESUS, AND SHALT BELIEVE IN THINE HEART THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, THOU SHALT BE SAVED.
    FOR WITH THE HEART MAN BELIEVETH UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS; AND WITH THE MOUTH CONFESSION IS MADE UNTO SALVATION.
    FOR THE SCRIPTURE SAITH, WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH ON HIM SHALL NOT BE ASHAMED. FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE JEW AND THE GREEK; FOR THE SAME LORD OVER ALL IS RICH UNTO ALL THAT CALL UPON HIM. FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

    Please people, don't add onto the free gift that God has so graciously bestowed unto us. He came to save the ungodly and he doesn't need help from man. He knows what he is doing.
    If anyone thinks that water will save them in anyway, they are being deceived.
    Think on this; what if you were a child and your daddy came up to you one day and wanted to hug you. What if you had just before done something naughty. You knew you didn't deserve his hug and were ashamed. But being your daddy he loves you uncondtionally. You think to yourself, maybe if I do something nice, I will be worthy of that hug. Then it dawns on you; my daddy loves me just the way I am and I don't have to do anything to earn his love. His hugs are free! :D

    In Christ,
    Susan
     

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