What validates the offer of salvation?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by canadyjd, Jan 24, 2010.

  1. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    This question came up on another thread and I wanted to explore it further.

    What validates the offer of salvation found in the gospel of Jesus Christ? These are the two ideas that came out. You may have your own.

    Does the "provision" made by Jesus Christ's death validate the offer of salvation? That is, to be a genuine offer, Jesus must have died for the sins of everyone to whom the gospel is offered, otherwise the offer is a lie. God, therefore, must have provided the "provision" for salvation in order for the offer to be genuine. The offer can be rejected and the provision will not become a reality.

    Or... does the "promise of God" to grant salvation to everyone who places their faith in Jesus Christ validate the offer of salvation found in the gospel? That is, the offer is a genuine offer to all who hear, even though no one can come unless God draws them. The offer is distinct from the provision. All who come will be saved, but only those God draws will come.

    I believe the latter and I give the comparison of the offer of salvation to those who keep the Law (i.e. rich young ruler). God made the offer of salvation to those who keep the O.T. Law without providing a provision for keeping that Law.

    The offer is genuine, based on God's promise to save all those who keep the Law, even though the provision to keep the law was not given.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  2. AresMan

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    Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
    Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
     
  3. Cypress

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    The ability to accept must exist as well as the offer being made for it to be genuine.
     
    #3 Cypress, Jan 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2010
  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    The rich young ruler asked Jesus how he could recieve eternal life. Jesus told him to keep the commandments. Matt. 19:16

    Did this man have the ability to keep the commandments? If not, did Jesus mislead him by telling him to keep the commandments?

    The offer was genuine, because God promised salvation to those who keep the law.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #4 canadyjd, Jan 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2010
  5. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    What about Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect."

    The admonition to be perfect certainly cannot mean that we have the ability to be perfect. Can it?


    By the way, I really can't imagine that anyone would stand before the Judge and say, "I really, really wanted to repent and believe, but I couldn't. I tried, but you wouldn't let me. I wanted to change my heart but I couldn't and you wouldn't change it for me. It's all your fault that I'm not saved."
     
  6. swaimj

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    I think the offer is validated by the commands that Jesus gives his followers regarding the way we are to live.

    We are to love all men including "those who are of the household of faith" and those who are our enemies. We are also to "go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature...". So, we are to love all and preach the gospel to all because the gospel is only for some? No, we are to love all and preach the gospel to all because the offer of salvation is for all. Genuinely!
     
  7. wattie

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    Hi all this is my first post in here.. thought I would pop in two cents worth here :)

    The Holy Spirit does draw a person before they can be eternally saved. But this drawing is not 'irresistible', a person responds to the drawing by either accepting Jesus sacrifice for them and being given eternal life, or rejecting the drawing and remaining seperated from Jesus.

    I believe that the Holy Spirit will draw all people at some stage in their life. Given that his eternal power and Godhead are revealed through the things that are made, it is reasonable to think anyone can understand and be drawn by the Holy Spirit as God.

    This drawing is not dependent on a person's behaviour.. as in only drawing people doing good works.. etc.. it is the Holy Spirit tapping on someone's heart no matter who they are.

    I believe a saved person may do good works.. not will.. they will have fruit from the natural result of being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, but not necessarily have a lifelong service to God just because they are indwelled. I also believe this indwelling can't be taken away by a saved person's failings- the Holy Spirit won't leave us.. and we can't leave Him.

    So that is my response.. it is neither calvinistic nor armenian.. and there are many many independent missionary baptist churches which would hold close to, if not the same teaching.
     
  8. Skandelon

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    I disagree. God did make a provision by which we can keep his law. How? By placing our faith in the One who perfectly kept the law. Jesus Christ.
     
  9. Cypress

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    Would an offer that was unattainable be genuine to you? I would be at no risk of making good on an offer to you of anything you like if the conditions were beyond your abilities.
     
  10. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow
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    I quoted this Scripture on another thread, but it applies here as well.

    "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

    Rom. 10:4
     
  11. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    So, does that mean you believe Jesus' command to "be ye therefore perfect" was insincere because it is impossible to comply?
     
  12. Skandelon

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    But, again, that is not impossible for us to comply. Christ made the provision possible by imputation through faith.
     
  13. Marcia

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    I don't think the law was ever provided for salvation -- the law was to show people's sins. Salvation could only be by faith, because faith is the way God set it up. The law reflected God's character and showed people their sin.


    re Matt. 19:
    I may have this wrong, but I think what Jesus said in verses 18 and 19 was just repeating what the rich young ruler thought, and the rich young ruler knew something was "lacking." Then Jesus added in verse 21 the real answer -- to sell his possession and follow Him. Iow, one must trust Christ for eternal life; that is the only way to eternal life.
     
  14. Allan

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    Ok, lets us reason this out properly as to what makes the offer valid to non-elect that they can be saved if they will believe. (simply put - the gospel offer is, believe and be saved).

    Now, let us break it down to show what makes the offer a ligitimate one being offered to both the elect and non-elect.

    example. If Bill Gates offered you a million dollars but he did not have a million dollars for you nor did he ever intend to give you a million dollars, Is his offer valid? Of course not. Logic should tell you he was a liar. Just because someone makes an offer this in no makes it valid. What makes it valid is that the party making the offer not only can but intends on making good that claim by having everything already prepared.

    The gospel offer has two parts; Believe and Saved.
    1. Believe.
    Believe what? (this is crux of the issue)

    1b. That sin has seperated us from God and that God must indeed judgement sin/us without mercy. But Jesus became our propitiation, whos sacrifice was to pay the penalty for sin. Taking the judgment of God upon Himself for us, reconciling us to God, and being raised again the 3 third day for our new life, being removed from the power of death and sin.
    (this is the gospel message that must believed)

    Thus IF they believe, they will be ..
    2. Saved.
    How are they saved?

    Refer back to 1b.
    If 1b. does not apply to those to whom the offer of salvation is given then it is in fact a lie. The gospel offer is that you must believe, but it is in this where it holds any validity. If Christ did not become their propitiation then there is no salvation possible.

    Thus to recap.
    Believe.
    ...that Christ is the propitation for our sin
    ........If there was no propitiation made for some then there can be no salvation for them and therefore no offer FOR salvation. As such God who is Just and Holy can not ligitimately state 'believe and be saved' as a valid offer to some if God made no provision for their salvation. Remember the offer is for their 'salvation'.


    It is very important to take note of your own statement; 'the "promise of God" to grant salvation to everyone who places their faith in Jesus Christ'
    Now, what in or about Christ are they to be placing their trust. It is in His work of propitiation :)
     
    #14 Allan, Jan 25, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2010
  15. Cypress

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    If it were an offer it would have been insincere unless one had the righteousness of Christ. I believe the intent of Christ's words were to indicate what that the standards to fulfill the law would entail. Not only that but to show that He was the only one capable of being perfect as His Father in heaven. His statement completes the thought began in Matt 5:17-20.
     
  16. Tom Butler

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    Originally Posted by Tom Butler [​IMG]
    So, does that mean you believe Jesus' command to "be ye therefore perfect" was insincere because it is impossible to comply?


    I agree. Were I one of those who heard Jesus' teaching, my first reaction would have been, "well, then, I'm undone because I've already messed up. And if I have to be more righteous than the Pharisees, then I'm a dead duck."

    The demand for perfect observance of the law is designed just exactly as Paul said it was--as a schoolmaster to show us the impossibility of keeping it perfectly. And Jesus could demand nothing less.

    I can't visualize Jesus saying, "now I know you can't keep the law perfectly, so I'm gong to cut you some slack in this area." Even though he knew it was an impossible demand, he made it anyway.

    That's my point. Jesus command and the ability to comply were not necessarily connected--in this scripture passage, at least.
     
  17. Johnv

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    What validates the offer of salvation?

    Accepting the offer.
     
  18. Cypress

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    Agreed,very simple actually...........John 3:16.........A child can do it!
     
  19. Winman

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    That Jesus died for all of mankind cannot be denied.

    2 Pet 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

    Here Peter speaks of false prophets and teachers who bring in damnable heresies. These men are absolutely lost. They are denying the Lord. But Peter says the Lord bought them. So Jesus died and shed his blood for them just as he did for those who believe and are saved.

    Salvation is a free gift, but it is not forced on you, you must receive it through faith. It is there waiting for you, but if you do not believe it will not profit you.

    Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.


    Paul warns men here lest they "come short" of entering into God's rest (being saved). This makes no sense if the doctrine of Irresistable Grace is true. He then says the gospel was preached to those who are saved and those who are not and says the difference was faith. The gospel did not profit those who did not believe. The implication is that it would have profited them if they had believed, so the offer of salvation was real and legitimate.
     
    #19 Winman, Jan 25, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2010
  20. canadyjd

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    I don't disagree with the statement that God didn't intend for the law to provide salvation, but to demonstrate the need for grace.

    That doesn't change the fact that the promise/offer remained the same. If you keep the law, you will enter into eternal life. That is the promise of God, as articulated by Jesus.

    The fact that God promised eternal life if you keep the law, validates the promise, even if no one can keep it.
    But Jesus said "if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

    I don't see any indication that Jesus is just repeating out loud what the man thought.

    Now, the question is specifically about salvation/eternal life.

    The answer was to keep the commandments.

    Did Jesus mislead this person by saying "if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

    Of course not. Was Jesus trying to get the man to understand he couldn't keep the commandments because of the love he had for his money/wealth? Yes, I believe He was.

    That doesn't change the fact that the offer was valid based on the promise of God that if you keep the commandments, you will enter into eternal life.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #20 canadyjd, Jan 25, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2010

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