What we know for sure about Ukraine; what Americans must demand

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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    What we know for sure about the situation in Ukraine is exactly what we know about Syria, Iran, and previously in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan:

    1. The same “leaders” in US government and corporate media giving information about Ukraine lied to us about other wars. For one example, official US documentation proves that all of the reasons for war on Iraq and Afghanistan were known to be false as they were told.

    2. Current US wars are not even close to being lawful. Two US treaties require that military armed attack is only lawful when another nation’s government attacks your nation first (or is an imminent threat).

    3. The US has a history of lying to begin unlawful Wars of Aggression. In fact, this is business as usual when the history is comprehensively explained and documented. Please don’t believe anyone on this: you know enough history that a 5-minute examination of the facts in context will demonstrate this is objectively true.

    Given what we know for sure, Americans must make one specific demand or be damned for more of the same:

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/03/know-sure-ukraine-americans-must-demand.html
     
  2. SolaSaint

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    Huh? :type:
     
  3. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Vain babbling. Pay it no heed.
     
  4. ktn4eg

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    Personally I believe that we ought to keep out of the Ukraine's internal affairs.

    As Poncho posted in the OP, the US has for many years, and by many illegal means, sought to meddle in many of this planet's nations' internal affairs under the guise of supposedly extending our brand of so-called "democratic values[?]" to other nations.

    Our Founding Fathers did not see such meddling in other nations' internal affairs as a goal for our foreign policy. In fact, they believed it to be exactly the opposite.

    Throughout the first 150 or so years of our nation's existence, we basically sought to not interfere with our neighbors. For the most part, ours was pretty much a "hands off" policy with regard to our foreign relations.

    It wasn't until close to the end of the 1800's that we chose to interfere with the internal affairs of other nations. Most of the times we did, it was because certain "New World Order" types demanded that we take on the mantle of "World Policeman" and right the perceived wrongs that other nations had perpetuated on each other.

    It began on a large scale when so-called "Progressives[?]" (code for "One-World" government advocates), such as Presidents Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson attempted to "Make the World Safe for Democracy."

    For the most part, all these ill-advised schemes ever really did was to make the world safe for dictators such as Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, the military controllers of Japan, etc.

    While I'm not completely sold on the theory that President Franklin Roosevelt did nothing to prevent the attack on Pearl Harbor in December, 1941, he certainly did very little to keep the Japanese from exploiting our weaknesses in the Orient.

    No sooner had we defeated the Japanese than we found the world engulfed in a so-called "Cold War" headed by Stalin and his puppet governments throughout the world. And, with the assistance of our communist-infiltrated State Department, Stalin secured (and threatened) the world with nuclear destruction.

    The "Korean 'Police Action,'" from 1950-53 (That's what it was officially called since we had no Constitutionally-mandated war declaration.) and our subsequent military interventions in South East Asia (i.e., the Vietnam conflict) proved to be disasters for us, and all we have to show for it is the loss of nearly 100,000 military lives.

    Under the guise of either "coming to the aid of our NATO and/or United Nations' allies," or some other nations' assistance, we've wasted another 50,000 or so lives and billions of taxpayer's dollars on unwinnable conflicts such as Iraq and Afghanistan (and nameless other conflicts throughout the world) under the tenuous guise of "Nation-Building" for societies that never really were "nations" in the first place.

    Personally, the idea of getting the United States out of the United Nations (and vice versa) seems more and more appealing to me.
     
  5. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
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    I wonder what would happen if the US actually did....


    Regards,
    BiR
     
  6. ktn4eg

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    Most likely the US will do nothing to give the boot to the United Nations.

    If anything, the gang of wimps that comprise a majority of both major political parties that occupy both ends of PA Avenue in DC (many of whom owe their positions of authority to the wealthy financiers who, in turn, are merely pawns of the promoters of a "New World Order" [a buzz word meaning a One-World Government]).

    Our Founding Fathers envisioned a very limited federal government, which is exactly the opposite of what we have today at most every level of government.

    The current "Dictator-in Chief" we now have in the White House will do everything he can to impose an even greater "Nanny State" that will attempt to meddle in the taxpayers' personal lives to an extent that dictators such as Hitler and Stalin could only dream about accomplishing.

    Will we as American citizens rise up and "kick the bums out" of their positions to which we elected them?

    I seriously doubt that this will happen because history reveals that, for the most part, once a political office holder assumes his/her office, he/she will do very little to "Rock the Boat."

    IOW, that person will almost everything he or she can to ensure that our taxpayer dollars will be used to further a society that will eventually become more and more dependent on "Good Old 'Uncle Sugar'" to have them feed at the government's trough more and more--thus, little by little, whittling away what precious few freedoms we still have.

    We, as American citizens once proudly saw our nation as, in Francis Scott Key's vision, "The Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave."

    Unfortunately, what was once Key's vision for the United States of America has now become a muddled and foggy outlook for our land.

    Would to God that we would rise up and demand that our duly elected officials do all they can to bring our nation back to what our Founding Fathers envisioned that it ought to be: A land where people, in spite of whatever their circumstances may be, can, by God's grace and help, rise above their lot in life and pursue their dreams for themselves and their posterity of a better life for the praise and glory of The One Who gave His life for them.
     
  7. poncho

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    Right Sector Calls On Russia’s Bin Laden to Fight in Ukraine

    Chechen Islamist has claimed responsibility for attacks on Russian civilians

    Kurt Nimmo
    Infowars.com
    March 2, 2014

    Right Sector, the ultra-nationalist street fighting group that targeted police prior to the coup in Ukraine, has called for Doku Umarov to fight in a war against Russia.

    Umarov, known as the “Bin Laden of Russia,” is a Chechen Islamist who has claimed responsibility for attacks on Russian civilians. According to media reports, his most recent threat was against the Olympics in Sochi, Russia. No terrorist attacks, however, occured during the games.

    Russian media reports the appeal to recruit Umarov was issued by Dmitry Yarosh, the leader of the ultra-nationalist and fascist Right Sector. The group is aligned with other extreme nationalist groups in Ukraine, including “Trident,” Patriot of Ukraine, “White Hammer” and the Ukrainian National Assembly – Ukrainian National Self Defense. Although it is not associated with the largest nationalist political party in the country, Svoboda, it has “a lot of common positions when it comes to ideological questions,” according to Yarosh.

    The Voice of Russia reports:

    President Yunus-bek Yevkurov of Ingushetia said that with his appeal to the leader of gangsters in the North Caucasus Doku Umarov, the leader of the Right Sector in Ukraine Dmitry Yarosh has confirmed that those who had been gangsters in the North Caucasus were also in Independence Square in Kiev. That appeal puts the Right Sector on a par with international terrorist organizations, he pointed out. He said that he was interested in the West’s response to this appeal because the West supported the new power in Ukraine.

    There is a growing consensus in the United States Congress to support diplomatically, economically and, to a lesser degree, militarily the coup government in Ukraine.

    Umarov’s connection to U.S. intelligence and the State Department

    In April, 2013, we reported on Umarov’s shady connections. According to research conducted by Eric Draitser and others, Umarov’s Kavkaz Center was funded by the State Department and several supporting fronts including the National Endowment for Democracy-funded Russian-Chechen Friendship Society.

    The militant Chechen effort to undermine Russia is supported by a number of influential neocons. “Despite the fact that organs such as Kavkaz Center operate in the service of terrorists who advocate the destruction of Russia, their activity alone is not altogether significant if seen in a vacuum,” writes Draitser.

    Rather, it is the association of these types of individuals and organizations with the US State Department and US intelligence that makes them particularly insidious. One such entity that bears scrutiny is the American Committee for Peace in the Caucasus (ACPC), previously known as the American Committee for Peace in Chechnya. As reported by Right Web at the Institute for Policy Studies, “The ACPC was founded in 1999 by Freedom House, a neoconservative organization that has worked closely with the U.S. government, receiving funds from the National Endowment for Democracy and other U.S. democratization initiatives.” This intimate relationship between the ACPC and the US State Department indicates not merely a confluence of interests, but rather a direct relationship wherein the former is an organ of the latter.

    http://www.infowars.com/right-sector-calls-on-russias-bin-laden-to-fight-in-ukraine/

    So we're seeing a replay of Washington's regime change efforts in Libya and Syria played out in the Ukraine. Complete with all the same State Dept NGOs and all the same old lies.

    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, or three times or even four times, man I must be a real sucker.

    The world would be better off if all the neocons and their pro interventionist cheerleaders in the corporate media would crawl back under the rock the came from.
     
    #7 poncho, Mar 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2014
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    My friend....are you suggesting that the sheeple will rise to the occasion? Sheep don't do that...not in their nature.Sad right!
     
  9. ktn4eg

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    What I was inferring in my post was, with a few possible exceptions, for the most part we as average American citizens will most likely do nothing to encourage those in positions of authority to "do the right thing" and stop our government from once again sliding down the very slippery and tenuous slope of trying to impose our so-called "Western 'Values' of 'Democracy'[?]'" (code for a "One-World Government") upon those who, for the most part, neither want to live in such a society, nor really need our so-called "help[?]" in living out their lives.

    The United States and the United Nations are NOT the "world's policemen"! I, for one, firmly believe that it's high time that we keep our noses out of the internal affairs of other nations that do not want us to do so.

    It's time we stop spending our hard-earned tax dollars to promote these ill-advised and extremely costly (in terms of both human lives and our very limited resources) being wasted!

    Will we rise up to the occasion? With the way that I see the trend currently developing, I seriously doubt it.
     
  10. poncho

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    Walking in the other man’s shoes

    The strategy of propaganda entails telling the lie, the whole lie, and nothing but the lie, and saying it often enough that people are gulled into submission. The propagandist doesn’t care if some people, such as the informed readers of Global Research, know that in strategic matters the mass media is scattering hefty doses of deceit. It is enough that most of the people are fooled most of the time. Those who have investigated the facts, and know the truth of any issue can simply be ignored, or branded as conspiracy theorists and ridiculed as tin-foil hatters. If push comes to shove they can even be disgraced, arrested and dealt with however the administration wants.

    One current lie is that Russia is back to her old tricks of expansionism. But the fact is that it is the United States that runs several hundred military bases around the world, and has a dozen airfields from which it launches predator drones for criminal summary execution of those it does not like…. including entire families, weddings, and funeral processions. It is the United States and NATO who are in perpetual war with one country after another, or even concurrently.

    As to this Ukraine crisis. When the Soviet Union was dissolved, there was a tacit agreement that NATO would not infringe close to the Russian border. But since then, over the past 25 years, not only has NATO (a.k.a, the United States) breached that understanding, it has invited the old Warsaw Pact countries to become members. It has even placed, or tries to place, missiles right up against Russia, pretending all the while that they are defences against Iran!

    Is it any wonder that the Russians realise that they’re treated as fools? That they see an encroaching tide of hegemony threatening to drown them, even to the extent that their 20 million who perished, did so in vain? That they will lose unhindered access to the open seas? That first strike missiles are being placed within a few hundred kilometres of Moscow and other major cities, so that the possibility of reprisal (MAD; Mutually Assured Destruction) is removed? Isn’t it curious that the western media does not mention anything about the close bonds between the peoples of that entire area, including Russia, Ukraine, and the Crimea?

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-woeful-ignorance-or-wilful-malevolence/5371677
     
  11. poncho

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