What We Love to "Hear"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by preacher4truth, Jan 10, 2011.

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  1. preacher4truth

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    That though we were blind, now we see. Comparing the healing of the physically blind to that of being spiritually blind. We love that part.

    We like to think and dialogue upon the lines that we were dead spiritually, thus were blind, and that He made us see. We like to stop it right there. But what are the implications that you and I could not even see, and what do the Scriptures say about His Sovereign choosing of those to whom He and He alone will choose to reveal Himself?

    We were also deaf spiritually. Did He not also heal the deaf? Why? For the same reason He healed the blind. As those who were blind could not see unless He enabled them, so too also those who were spiritually deaf could not hear His voice, and understand, unless He enables them. He did this to show us where we all are, spiritually, for the same exact reason He healed the blind. That He must do it all. Not just part of it. He came to find His lost sheep, and He carried them back to the fold. He did all of it. The only reason we are able to do so (hear, see, and choose) is because we are/were already His sheep, that He chose, not because we came and chose Him; He came to us and He alone chose us and He enabled us to do all of it. This also shows us where we would have remained unless He reached into our lives and chose us. Mark 7:37

    We should thank God that He enabled every aspect of our being dead in sins so that we could respond to Him. Spiritual death to spiritual life, He granted to us every aspect, and enabled every facet of our being spiritually dead, to be alive again spirtitually so we could respond to Him choosing us, even giving us capability to hear Him and to be able to see. He who made us able to hear made us able to hear so we would be saved. He chose us in this. Not the other way around.

    This nonsense that says "Yes, he opened my eyes and ears, but I chose him" is ridiculous. You chose nothing, He chose you, and enabled you to respond.

    Some on here like to say "So you're saying we couldn't hear Him, that the dead spiritually can't hear him?" then mock it.

    No, you couldn't even hear Him, unless He opened your ears to do so.

    I am amazed that such exalt man in this whole thing. You, and I could do nothing without Him. Nothing. Nope; we could not even hear His voice unless He chose us and enabled us to be capable of hearing it.

    Has He not also blinded some, and, made some deaf to not respond? Of course He has. He can, He is God! The hearing we talk about is the ability to hear and understand, Isaiah 6:9. This is His Sovereign choice to do so. It is plainly taught in the Scriptures.

    Why can the Potter do this? Because He is all wise and He is Sovereign, so we must either trust Him in all of this that He does, or wemust say "well, my God is different than that God so I reject it" and in turn fashion to ourselves what we want our God to be like, so that He is either manageable, or way above our thoughts and Sovereign and accept the God of Scriptures. The latter is the One Whom I worship.

    This does away with those who think they've done this choosing out of their own free will to do so. Not so, and not even close. Rather, He enabled you to be capable of doing so.

    Who made the blind eyes to see, and the deaf ears to hear? He did.

    I just want to thank God that He did all of it; the choosing, the opening my eyes, the opening of my ears, and the enabling me to believe He and He alone saved me. He chose me, and I glory in that.

    - Blessings
     
    #1 preacher4truth, Jan 10, 2011
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  2. Amy.G

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    I don't recall of one instance of Christ healing the deaf or blind in which the person did not want to be healed.
    Son of David have mercy on me...cried the blind man. He called out for Jesus and by calling Him "son of David", he revealed that He knew Jesus was the Son of God, the Messiah.
     
  3. InTheLight

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    Is it?

    2 Cor 4:3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
     
    #3 InTheLight, Jan 10, 2011
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  4. pinoybaptist

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    but he didn't know that inherently.
    and prophets and healers were a dime a dozen in that country in those times.
    why should he trust THIS particular one.
    the old man at the temple saw infants being presented to the temple daily.
    yet out of the maybe tens of babies at that particular time and particular day, how did he know that the baby was the one his heart had been waiting for ?
     
  5. preacher4truth

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    Yes, it certainly is to those who see. I wonder how Satan got authority to blind eyes? His own free will? Your one verse proof-text doesn't do away with the fact God does as He wills to do, but rather reinforces what I said. God is in charge of Satan too, and uses him for whatever He wills. :)
     
    #5 preacher4truth, Jan 10, 2011
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  6. preacher4truth

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    Let me make certain I hear you correctly.

    You reached out to God all on your own, and did it without Him or any of His enabling you to do so?

    You did it then without Him?
     
  7. Robert Snow

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    I guess this horse isn't dead enough yet. Let's beat it some more, I'm sure many here don't know the teachings of Calvinism. After all, if it weren't for Calvinism, the bible would have nothing to say!
     
  8. InTheLight

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    I don't know if you're asking me, but if I could use a page out of the Calvinist's playbook I could always respond like this:

    I reached out to God all on my own because it was God's will that I do so.
     
  9. preacher4truth

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    You have to avoid it. Plain and simple.

    Doctrines of Grace = Him.

    Free willers = You.
     
  10. Old Union Brother

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again repentance is God's work not man's. I discussed this in a thread from November http://baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=68776. God starts the work, I had to be obedient and God finishes the work.
     
  11. InTheLight

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    Ezekiel 18:30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
     
    #11 InTheLight, Jan 10, 2011
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  12. InTheLight

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    No, I'm simply employing Calvinist circular logic.
     
  13. Old Union Brother

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    I posted this in another thread somewhere , I can't remember which one but here goes again. I did have to rid myself of the offenses that I committed. Please read my statement of salvation I don't think that I contradict a thing that you quoted:

    At about the age of 12 years old, I heard the call of God and rejected his call. I wandered in sin for 11 years, always hearing that call but rejecting it. When I was 23 years old God called to me like never before and a fear set up in me that I can't describe. I felt as if a mountain had fallen on my shoulders, I feel it was a mountain of sin. This mountain brought me to my knees, begging to be delivered from the sad state that I was in. He showed me what a sorry individual I was, blind, deaf and lame. When God showed me all of these things, I had to repent with a Godly sorrow; I had to travel through a trail of tears, begging to be delivered from the sinful state I was in. I worked myself out of works, begging with everything in me to be delivered. God let me realize that my works were as filthy rags in His sight. When I came to the end of my strength giving up my pride, God worked a work in me that no mortal man could work. He anointed my eyes so that I could see his work. He touched my ears so that I could hear His marvelous word. He touched my lameness and let me walk in his wondrous light. But most of all he resurrected me to a lively Hope in him. Praise be to God for his loving Grace that made me whole and set me free through the precious blood of the Christ. I thank him daily for the gift of life that he gave me through his beautiful Son. God draws, God teaches how we should pray, and most of all God Saves.

    Peace and blessing

    Jeff
     
  14. InTheLight

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    That's a wonderful testimony. I had a similar experience.

    I posted those verses in Ezekiel for discussion purposes, not as a rebuttal to your post. I should have been more clear about that. Sorry.

    Usually in scripture repentance is given as a command from God. Something that people are supposed to do. Repent literally means "a change of mind".

    Calvinists insist that first God has to regenerate your heart, give you a new heart and a new spirit before you can repent, but these verses in Ezekiel show that God commands us to repent and get a new heart. Notice the order of things. Repent, then get a new heart. Also interesting is the command to "rid yourselves of offenses you've committed", which of course flies in the face of reformed theology.
     
  15. preacher4truth

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    Not only were you incapable of reaching, nor do you understand how it is God who enables wicked sinful man, and glorify man, not God, you're also incapable of answering my questions, and thus resort to insolence, lol.

    Frankly, that you cannot answer is a tragic commentary upon yourself.
     
  16. Gershom

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    And what a dis-lodged, convoluted, mess of jargon it was. I would like seven minutes of my life back.
     
  17. quantumfaith

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    Get out the whip Robert, it just aint dead like a corpse yet. :)
     
  18. quantumfaith

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    I am proud to be considered by some to be in the "free willers" camp. :)
     
  19. InTheLight

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    I find the Calvinist technique of asking questions to be tiresome and unproductive. You'd be better off asserting your position than continually asking leading questions and posing strawman arguments.

    Oh, and I'll save you the trouble of asking. Here's the strawman portion of this thread:

    This nonsense that says "Yes, he opened my eyes and ears, but I chose him" is ridiculous. You chose nothing, He chose you, and enabled you to respond.

    Some on here like to say "So you're saying we couldn't hear Him, that the dead spiritually can't hear him?" then mock it.

    No, you couldn't even hear Him, unless He opened your ears to do so.

    I am amazed that such exalt man in this whole thing.
     
  20. quantumfaith

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    And dont forget the tautologies and begging the questions.
     
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