What will happen if "Freewillers" continue their message?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by psalms109:31, Feb 16, 2010.

  1. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,600
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do not think of you as "Freewillers", but a certain group calls you that. If "freewillers" are wrong and they continue their message what effect will it have on the elect?

    If "freewillers" are right and they stop their message what effect will it have on the world?
     
    #1 psalms109:31, Feb 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2010
  2. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,503
    Likes Received:
    40
    Numbers in quote mine!

    1 none!
    2 lots of folk will never come to Christ that otherwise would!

    This, of course, is assuming "freewill" means that man has a choice to accept/reject His word and offer of salvation.
     
  3. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    Indeed, the "risk" of harm being caused is much greater if the Calvinists are in error, which is NOT proof of their being wrong, nor is it even an appeal for them to abandon what they believe to be true. Truth is truth regardless of it's perceived effects. However, if nothing else, it should cause them to tread all the more carefully and study all the more diligently about these matters.
     
  4. MB

    MB
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    13
    #1 Salvation is eternal only the saved are elect.
    #2 A lot of people will never hear the truth
    I believe the interpretation of the term freewillers is misunderstood even by the freewillers themselves. Every man has freewill yet no one choses Christ, rather we are chosen by Him first. This choosing is not election. Christ chose to die for the whole world. The whole world isn't elect but it is able to respond to the gospel.
    1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    It isn't Christ the freewiller chooses but, rather whether or not to rebel when he hears the gospel. We become convinced by hearing the truth of the gospel and it is the truth of the gospel that takes us to our knees in submission to Christ. We receive Salvation it's a gift. Only those who believe receive

    Our freewilll comes in to play of whether or not to rebel against being convinced. Or we rebel against submitting to Christ. Rebellion is our freewill choice. If we choose not to rebel we become right with God. There are only two possibilities, they are saved or, lost.
    MB
     
  5. Theopolis

    Theopolis
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0
    The human will is in bondage, only until God regenerates a man. Once regenerated, a man's will no longer is in bondage. A regenerated man now has a renewed will which has been enabled to respond to the gospel call with an exercise of faith.
     
  6. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    ==I think these are rather pointless questions (no offense :smilewinkgrin:). Our job is not to sit around debating free-will (etc). As Christians our job is to proclaim the Gospel to the lost and disciple the saved. If we prayerfully do that then we are doing what we are suppose to be doing. Christians who spend all of their time debating Calvinism, freewill, etc, are wasting their time. Don't misunderstand me, there is nothing wrong with studying and debating these issues. However when we begin to be so consumed with these issues that we are not obeying Scripture, there is a serious problem.
     
  7. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    nothing on the persons, of course.
    theology is not what washed away our sins, it simply informed us of when, how and who, and knowing or not knowing the when, how and who will not negate the reality of its being done and finished during the when by the who and how.
    so you see, all these debates and discussions on free grace and freewillism is good in as far as sharpening one's irons are, except that being the fallen human beings we are, we can't help insulting and deriding the other side, as you can see on this board.
     
  8. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,600
    Likes Received:
    0
    Truth

    When I started talking to people I never knew my own people would disagree the the Hope that the world has through Jesus.

    One day there will be amount that will come to Jesus that will not be able to be counted.

    I started this in 1993 and I have learned a lot from my calvinist brothers and have come so far from where I was.

    One thing I realize they can never take away no matter what the do is take away the hope the whole world has through Jesus.

    There is an elect which I cannot deny, but the other side of the coin is that the hope we have is for the whole world and no matter what you do , you cannot reconcile it out of the bible. It is the other side of the coin that man try to reconcile out, but it is still there.

    I praise God for those who have still held firm to the Gospel truth of the good news.

    God hasn't lyed to you that He does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. You trying to reconcile that into your belief system is as bad as a freewiller trying to reconcile the scripture you give to thier belief system.
     
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    1. None!

    2. Zero!

    3. Nada!

    GOD will bring to Salvation those HE chose before the foundation of the world. Nothing man can do will alter that truth!

    Look here and listen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ_jFO2VzRQ
     
    #9 OldRegular, Feb 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2010
  10. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    {face-palm}

    oy...
     
  11. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,185
    Likes Received:
    370
    Amen. Jesus told us to preach the Gospel to all nations. How people are saved is not our issue - it's just to be faithful to the Lord. Whether it's all man, all God or some portion of both, we know for sure it is not us that make someone be saved. So it really doesn't matter when the rubber meets the road what we believe as long as we follow the Word of God and preach the Gospel.
     
  12. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    Personally, I don't understand those who say we have no free will. Mankind down through the centuries has proven that not to be true. We have the choice to make (as Joshua said in Joshua 24:15 "Choose you this day whom ye will serve----as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

    That was a conscious and free choice--just as it was my choice when I chose to accept the Lord as my Saviour nearly 47 years ago. Others choose not to serve or accept Him. Lucifer had a free will when he chose to rebell against God and desire to be equal to Him as stated in Isaiah 14.

    We are not robots, wind-up toys, or puppets on strings destined to do as we're made to do, to say what we're made to say, to walk as we're made to walk.

    God through His foreknowledge knew who would and who would not accept Him and chose through that foreknowledge who He would and would not save. The "elect" are simply those who are saved--NOt those that God elected to save over others that He rejected. I am nothing special, and yet God saved me on May 18, 1963--not because I was worthy, but in spite of the fact that I was NOT worthy.
     
  13. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not sure that a person's view of soteriology changes his obedience to the great commission. I have known Calvinists who obey as well as non-Calvinists who obey. the same goes for those who disobey.

    I am not sure what your point is.
     
  14. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    The point is to suppose that if Calvinism is false that the ramifications could be quite sever. Some Calvinistic believers throughout history have used their understanding of soteriology as an excuse not to evangelize. Some have allowed their view to turn "hyper" and prevent their involvement in missions. Granted, that is not what true "Calvinism" teaches, but that doesn't negate this historical fact about what SOME believers have done.

    Additionally, supposing Calvinism is false, think of all the time, energy, effort and Christian resources wasted on the proclamation of its claims by its adherents and the rebuttal of those claims by its opponents. If "Arminianism" is false, no such eternal effect can be claimed...after all we are just doing as we are decreed to do, right? :saint:
     
  15. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    The same logic could be applied to your position also. Think of all the time, effort and energy you have expended in trying to "debunk" Calvinism.

    :tonofbricks:
     
  16. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Of course, we have free will. We have the freedom to choose what color socks to wear, to shave or not, to brush our teeth or just gargle or leave the teeth rotting, to have kids or not to have kids, to live in a house or under a bridge, to rob the guy next door or to work hard for ourselves, to abandon our spouses or to be faithful till death, to be religious or irreligious, and all those decisions and choices we make in accordance with our nature and natural inclinations. Please note: nature and natural.

    But we can't do anything else that is not within our nature, just like a cockroach can't bite like a rattler, or a rattler purr like a kitten, or a kitten roar like a lion, or a lion fly like an eagle, or an eagle dive into the sea like a kingfisher, or a dolphin do what dolphins are unable to do.

    Which was spoken to everyone, right ? an exhortation that was also meant for idol-worshipping, child-sacrificing tribes around Israel, right ? They too are to choose to serve the LORD, whom they have never known, the LORD who never professed to know them.

    By whom. Joshua ?
    Okay. So, no glory at all to the Holy Spirit whom Christ sent to convict the world ? All yours ? You didn't need no God to prick your heart ?

    Well, the fact is that only Adam, Eve, and Lucifer had TRUE free will, and they blew it.
    Look what happened.
    Lucifer can NEVER be redeemed. How can you redeem a spirit with no blood thru the blood of the Savior who put on human flesh ? A spirit has no blood, and there is nothing in Scripture specifying how a fallen angel is to be redeemed.
    Adam and Eve were thrown out of the garden, where once God cared for all their needs, and "in Adam, all die" which is to say, all his descendants are spiritually dead, because Adam certainly didn't die physically at that point.

    Right. We are ungrateful, disloyal, ingrates who accuse God of turning us into robots instead of thanking Him for His decision to save many through the death and bleeding of His own only begotten Son, that's what we are.

    The word "foreknowledge" I see in Scripture, the phrase "knew who would and would not accept Him and chose through that foreknowledge who He would and would not save" I am trying hard to find. Can you please point me to the right direction on where to look ?

    Scripture certainly disagrees with you.

    Romans 9:14-23

    What shall we say then ? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid .
    For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy , and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion .
    So then it is not of him that willeth , nor of him that runneth , but of God that sheweth mercy .
    For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up , that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
    Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth .
    Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault ? For who hath resisted his will?
    Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God ? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
    Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
    What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known , endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
    And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
     
  17. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Exactly. But I suppose as long as there are Calvinists and Doctrine of Grace adherents, the vampire hunter rides onnnnnnn!!!!
     
  18. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, the same argument cannot be applied to my position. If we suppose that I am wrong and Calvinism is correct, then the same number of elect will be saved and I am only an Arminian because God has so decreed it to be so.

    And if Calvinism is false, which I believe it is, this would be time well spent as compared to the time many spend watching sports, hunting or whatever. Whereas, if Calvinism is correct, then I'm only doing what God decreed for me to do.
     
  19. Jerome

    Jerome
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    45
    You mean like Rahab, Ruth, etc.?
     
  20. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    Your posts show a fundamental misconception of what Calvinism teaches.

    I just wonder what would happen if the professional Non-Calvinists and the professional Calvinists turned their considerable intellects towards the liberals on this board who love to point out what they incorrectly see in their minds as errors in the Bible and deny the Bible as God's literal Word.

    And, those, my friend, are the real vampires.
     

Share This Page

Loading...