What's missing in the story "A Christams Carol"?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Christos doulos, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Gospel!!

    I was watching one of my favorite Christmas movies,"a Christmas carol" by Charles Dickens, and I have started to notice that something was missing in their attempt to deliver a Christian message. It's the gospel. Not only did Scrooge change on his own, but that he only changed his selfish, greedy ways because he was threatened with eternal torment.

    A true believer does not change on their own. It is the ongoing redemptive work of Jesus Christ in him or her that changes them and no true believer should ever come to Christ because of the fear of hell; rather they should come to Him because of what Jesus Christ did for them on the cross.

    That is the Christian message that is missing in this moralistic story.
     
  2. Romans7man

    Romans7man
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0

    Was Charles Dickens a Christian?
     
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,833
    Likes Received:
    114
    A Christmas Carol wasn't intended to bring attention to the Christ of Christmas. It wasn't a gospel presentation. It was just a story - a morality play, as you state. Frankenstein is also a morality play. I've used both stories in literature classes for that reason.

    Was Dickens saved?

    I don't know. He attended an Anglican church, but that doesn't save anyone. He wrote an-easy-to-read version of the four gospels for his children that they later had published. I have a copy - it's entitled The Life of Our Lord. But writing a book about Jesus doesn't make one saved either.

    He apparently admired Christ. I read somewhere that his children claimed that he gave them New Testaments when they would leave home. But giving away scriptures doesn' save either.

    He was a brilliant author. Among the best. It would be nice if he had been saved, but I can't say for sure.
     
    #3 Scarlett O., Dec 24, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2011
  4. PamelaK

    PamelaK
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,504
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tiny Tim did talk about Jesus giving sight to the blind and making the lame walk, but not saving from sin, that I remember, anyway. If I'm wrong on that please correct me. Apart from that, yes, just a morality play, as Scarlett says.
     
  5. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Was he a Christian"? What does that even mean these days? I honestly believe he thought he was a better "Christian" than most and that he was doing the true teachings of Christ.

    The only thing I can say for sure is that Charles Dickens never knew the true gospel
     
  6. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    Why does Dickens have to tell a Gospel specific story? Are not the virtues and results part of a Gospel centered ethic?

    I enjoy reading Dickens, he's a great story teller. That said my favorite Christmas movie is A Christmas Story with Ralphie. Great movie.
     
  7. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you can know the heart of a man? You are basing your entire premise regarding a man's relationship to God on a story he wrote?
     
  8. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not a Charles Dickens expert or anything like that. However, as a historian, I think he was really trying to make a social protest about life in England and the Industrial Revolution of the 19th century (child labor laws, poor working conditions, etc). I don't think the Gospel was his aim in the story. A story does not have to present the Gospel to be a good story. To say Dickens did not know the Gospel because he did not present it in this story is going way too far. You need to study his life before making a bold statement like that. I don't know Dickens' beliefs about Christ (etc) and I certainly would not try to figure out his entire belief system based on one writing.
     
    #8 Martin, Dec 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2011
  9. Arbo

    Arbo
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,942
    Likes Received:
    1
    It may be that it was not Dickens' intent for it to be a christian story.
     
  10. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's a fair interpretation dealing with his faith, but I never referred to his faith. I am only talking about his understanding of the gospel, and I am yet to read anything where Dickens had a firm grasp of the gospel.
     
    #10 Christos doulos, Dec 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2011
  11. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    Didn't say it was, but it clearly has Christian over tones. My observation was that the gospel was missing.
     
    #11 Christos doulos, Dec 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2011
  12. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    I read the Constitution the other day and didn't see the Gospel. Is that wrong?

    Maybe it's just a good piece of literature and we should appreciate it as such, since it makes no claims to be a presentation of the Gospel. :thumbsup:
     
  13. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know all analogies limp my friend, but that was a three legged horse :love2:
     
  14. Romans7man

    Romans7man
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0
    I read the US Constitution last week as well and I saw the finger prints of the gospel all over it.

    I believe it is the book of Ester that does not mention God in it, but we see Him working throughout.
     
  15. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,262
    Likes Received:
    64
    Yes. And Tolkein's "Lord of the Rings" saga does not have the Gospel message spelled out, but it is RIFE with Christian imagery and ethics.
     
  16. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    How bizarre to think that every story has to be a presentation of the gospel.
    (We need a head scratching smilie).
     
  17. matt wade

    matt wade
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    76
    Yet, you still claim "The only thing I can say for sure is that Charles Dickens never knew the true gospel". Just because you haven't read anything, doesn't make it so. I haven't read anything where you have a firm grasp on the gospel either, does that mean I can say for sure that you don't know the true gospel?
     
  18. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    I have it in the form of a Bantam Classic which I picked up in Hong Kong months ago. Dickens was quite the story-teller. There is a section in the back Dickens Reads His Carol --The Reception. It's quite revealing.

    Although there are allusions to the Gospel --the Gospel as such will not be found in his classic tale. I think Charlie Brown's Christmas makes it much clearer.

    The main point about the transformation of Scrooge is that he "lived upon the Total Abstinence Principle,ever afterwards..."

    I take nothing away from Dickens. He was a wonderful writer,and it's especially around this time of the year that I dip into his works (well,they're back in Korea at present).
     
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,917
    Likes Received:
    94
    There is a line in the Christmas Carol where his girl friend tells Scrooge that he Fears the World. That to me is telling, since no true Christian fears the world when Christ is master of the soul. :jesus:
     
  20. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0

    I tend to look at his story similiar to CS lewis with narnia, Tolkien with Rings, as Chrsitian fiction being used to highlight/stress a Chistian message, in more of a allogorical/symbollic fashion...

    message is there in the sense of Christmas being the time to have repentence and have faith back in something larger thn yourself, to "get in the spirit" of the season and becom e a changed person!
     

Share This Page

Loading...