What's the big deal?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, May 2, 2008.

  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    What is the big deal with wine threads?
    Why does it matter so much why you believe one way or another?
    Some would have moderate drinking on the same level as murder or adultery. Doesn't make sense to me.

    Please do not debate alcohol on this thread.
    This thread is to discuss why people think it is such a big deal.
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    From what I see you spend more time obssessed with this subject than anyone else. I think the majority of folks around here are burned out on this subject.
     
  3. Amy.G

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    I'll drink to that.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. standingfirminChrist

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    Funny, he doesn't want us debating wine and yet opens a wine thread in the debate section.

    Actually, Dale, since Scripture commands abstinence, it is a big deal to God when those who are saved disobey Him by drinking it even in moderation... and it should be a big deal to all Christians.
     
    #4 standingfirminChrist, May 2, 2008
    Last edited: May 2, 2008
  5. Dale-c

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    The subject has been beaten to death. I am just wondering why it is such a big deal to many people.

    For me, it is a big deal because of the terrible exegesis some use to make up there positions.
    I don't care what people do or not do.

    SFIC, the reason I make a big deal with you is that I think you have horribly misinterpreted the bible on this issue.
    It could be any issue. It could be saying that Ford cars are evil.

    BUt I wonder why you and others make out to be a major sin. Almost a fundamental to the faith.

    That is what I want to discuss.

    We already know what your position is.
    Now tell us what you think the consequences are to having a differing opinion.
    And tell us why your position is so important.
     
  6. Dale-c

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    That is fair enough. Do you place all transgressions on this level?

    Also, what dangers do you see resulting from someone taking a different view than you do? Even if it is just moderation?
     
  7. Dale-c

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    To give my side of that last question:

    I see no big deal at all to those who have not really studied the issue.
    It concerns me when a pastor who has studies the issue in depth and takes a position that makes the scriptures conflict.

    Again, not looking for an argument but a friendly discussion as to why it gets people so worked up at times.
     
  8. tinytim

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    To be fair to SFIC, it is probably important to him because his family has been effected by alcohol in a detrimental way.

    When you see someone die from drunkenness, it effects your life, your views, and your biblical outlook.

    Why is it so important to you Dale to get everyone on board with you?
    I am not being mean, but it seems that way.

    SFIC knows I disagree with him over a lot of things... but I do understand why he takes stands the way he does. (Doesn't mean I will agree with him, but at least I can see where he is coming from)
     
  9. Dale-c

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    I am sure you are right. I would imagine that many are that way
    In fact, truth be told we all have issues like that.
    Things that have effected us and we want to get rid of it entirely.

    If I believed that even moderation was wrong, I would see those to practice moderation to be leading to a slippery slope to excess.
    I know many people do believe this way.

    No, you are not being mean, it is a good question.
    Perhaps I make a bigger deal out of it that I should.
    No, I HAVE made a bigger deal out of it at times that I should have.

    But again, it isn't the issue itself.
    I have no emotional attachment to this particular issue.
    It just concerns me that people will take an issue that has effected them emotionally and take it to the extreme of (in my view) ignoring or twisting other Scriptures to match up with their views.

    Sometimes, yes I do see where he is coming from.

    And this is NOT the pick on SFIC thread.
    I am not even wanting to argue with anyone, just wanting to know what makes it a big deal to people.
     
  10. Joe

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    To answer your question Dale, here is my belief from my own experiences

    I have encountered this problem with a few employees. When they obsess about alcohol trying to drag other employees into the discussion (as they did when they were drinking with their drinking buddies,pulling them into their addiction) it tells me that used to be their lifestyle and they haven't fully let it go. They maybe haven't drank alcohol in many years, but it is still the focal point of their life.

    The addition is still there.

    The obsession is still there-Obsessive compulsive behavior which can't seem to move on.

    Many years later, it is still controlling their lives.

    My other employees get tired of hearing about it. They are non-drinkers (something I ask during the job interview) so the topic isn't especially interesting to them.

    Even after I address it with them, their obsession over alcohol contiues. They continue to start conversations on the topic or redirect conversations to the topic of alcohol during work hours. Despite their well meaning promises to me and other employees to let it go. My other employees are non-drinkers, very health minded, so they aren't particularly interested in the subject.

    Alcohol is a disease, many refuse to admit it and refuse to completely detoxify of it. So the symptoms linger on.

    My guess is they probably feel withdrawl symptoms when they aren't obsessing over it. They can't seem let it go.

    This is why it can be such a big deal imo. Again, just my humble opinion.

    When you own a Construction business in our area, you see alot of this.
     
  11. Dale-c

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    Joe, you make some valid points.
    And certainly the job site is no place to argue over it.

    I used to work in contruction myself and I remember a guy wishing he had a case of beer there.
    The person wishing for the beer was a christian, as was the boss.
    The boss said "not on my job you won't!"
    Not the boss had problems with the abuse of alcohol before he had been saved.
    He did not force others to abstain because he did not believe the Bible required abstinence. He did however disallow it from his job sites, which of course was quite understandable.
     
  12. standingfirminChrist

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    Anyone who reads Proverbs 23:31 to say 'Look not thou upon the wine when you have had one or two glasses,' is horribly misinterpreting the Bible on the issue.
     
  13. Revmitchell

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    How incorrigable. Dale it seems you cannot get enough talking about how those you disagree with are wrong on this issue. :laugh:
     
  14. Dale-c

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    I understand you think that.
    Is your concern that the same person would not interpret the bible in other places properly?
    And would you make a distiction between people who just grew up thinking moderation was ok, never really studying it for themselves and those who have studies and still come up with that view?

    Again, not looking for a heated debate. I am going to over emphasize that here because these discussions can get heated.
     
  15. Dale-c

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    I am trying to have a nice and friendly discussion.
    SFIC is answering kindly.
    I am not looking for heat here so please don't do anything that would cause this to get out of hand.
    Thanks.
     
  16. standingfirminChrist

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    If they have studied and still come up with the view that Proverbs 23:31 does not command total abstinence, then they haven't studied enough.
     
  17. Brother Bob

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    Well, I got in the first of these discussions on drinking, made my veiws known and have refrained from posting on the since. For those who don't know how I stand, I agree with SFIC on acohol.

    BBob,
     
  18. Joe

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    Ok. Then you know what I am saying. Construction is full of people with pasts of abusing drugs/alcohol who can't seem to let it go. Still constantly mulling over the topic.

    Depending upon the job, it can be alright to have a beer or two during lunch/break. But none of the guys do.

    One of my employees got caught getting high with the school janitor a few years ago. This was during the summer when the kids were out of school. The head maintenance man is who I and the guys report to. He was also a good friend of mine growing up so it wasn't a huge problem with him. But still. I have to be more careful in the hiring process.
     
    #18 Joe, May 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2008
  19. Dale-c

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    I worked at an office for about 5 years and once three of us were working late at a guy brought a case of beer in.
    He was not a christian and he offered me one.
    I declined.
    I didn't feel comfortable doing that on the job.
    Actually, the first drink I ever had though was at a sushi place with one of those guys and the boss.
    It was after work though.
     
  20. JerryL

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    I have a question. Do you smoke SFIC? You said you had COPD. Just wondering.
     

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