What's With All These Clueless Christians?

Yes, it was 2 Thessalonians 3 that I meant. I don't know much about Matthew Henry, and at times I have slammed the procedure of quoting commentators here in support of a position; their opinions are no authority. But I won't 'slam' here-- at least you didn't do a page or more worth of copy and paste like some do; especially this guy named Ryan.

But I can briefly tell you of my own experience, which may explain why I confront the general concept you have shown. I refused to go to college right after high school, and I went to work in this shop that made wooden boxes and bases and other shipping materials. I just wasn't like the other guys who worked there, and they could easily see it. I didn't come from the rough backgrounds of most of them, an didn't talk or act like it. Somehow it began that those guys would ask for small loans; not just from me, I'm sure, but as I obliged them, the idea caught on, and there came to be 2 or 3 who wanted 5, 10, maybe 20 dollars every week, and sometimes I would even quote scripture to them, telling them Jesus said "Give to those who ask; turn not away from those who want to borrow." I basically ignored anything else and didn't care why they couldn't manage money better; but they paid me back on Fridays, not wanting to lose their lending machine [me], sometimes even with unasked-for 'interest.' But not even I was idealistically blind for all time. I saw them exchanging little cigarettes, even smoking them in the parking lot at times; and other items, such as knives and clips were traded. But what it took to get through to me what I was enabling was this one guy who came along a few months before I left there. He quickly saw what was going on and wanted in on it. I gave him a small loan or 2, and once when he didn't pay back I asked him and he made threats and demanded more money. I refused, he fainted a few blows at me, showed me his Bowie knife and talked about how sharp he keeps it... but after a few days he did pay back-- then asked for $100, and for a period there every day at work was leerings, showing the knife, and demands for money, and I refused his request and his threats [which he never carried out]. That ended it. I concluded then that Jesus didn't command someone to subject himself to idiocacy like that. I started just roaring at any guy who asked for money. When that guy found out I was quitting, he accused me of wanting to get away from black people [I was finally going to college and getting a job more convenient for that better purpose].

So, if you're still saying we take the words of Jesus as a superior guide and enable sloth, dope, and outrageous irresponsibility, you're going to get a different perspective from me [and that's definitely a milder way of saying this than I normally use]. And if it's true in this particular topic, it's likely true in others. Jesus: "Give to those who ask"... Paul: "He who does not work shall not eat". I'll even take Shakespeare's "Neither a borrower nor a lender be" over an uncondtional "Turn not away from those who want to borrow." And the rare times I face somebody on the streets who asks for a few dollars... usually I ignore them, or I make some suggestions to where they can shove a dollar.

Count me out as an idiot for Jesus.

 

This has nothing to do with helping the needy, hungry, and those unable to help themselves. The above has to do with being used as an easy target by those wanting a free ride. Apples and oranges.

 

Double-pagan, that is the point. If you "temper" the words of Paul that if you don't work you don't eat, witht he words of Jesus, and unconditional "Give to those who ask......." you come up being a sucker for a bunch of sponges.

Which is more your actions?... Give to anyone who asks, or refuse to feed those who don't work?

 

Clueless

I never said not to be discerning in giving help. But we are commanded to take care of those in need.:tonofbricks:

 

There have been people come by the church asking for help. If it is an obvious scam that has been pulled on us before, we will buy food, pay a utility bill, pay a gas station, etc to help, not give money. If it is unclear (sometimes it is impossible to tell) we err on the side of giving. At that point, it is up to God to handle the situation.

When fraud is obvious, then my all means, save it for someone who needs help.

 

Sometimes the situation is clear, sometimes it is not. Each case for need is different.

You are quite welcome to call me whatever name you choose. I have been called lots worse. This is just to let everyone know the name is based on the hobby of astronomy, and not the worship of Roman gods.

 

I figured that. I concluded a long time ago, after some debate, that picture must not be your face. I am interested in astronomy, too, hoping to get a good look through binoculars at Saturn at opposition the next few days.

Back to the subject... Crabby, you showed in your last post you are actually 'tempering' the words of Jesus by the words of Paul-- Jesus said nothing about discernment in gifts or loans, while Paul said don't reward sloth; discernment is with Paul in this.

 

Poncho,The truth of the matter is that many christians,are asleep.
They greatly need to have the scales fall from their eyes,their ears to be opened,and a heart determined to do Gods will as he leads them.
We can do nothing if are not first willing to be used by him,are we as christians HOT? COLD? or luke warm? I hope we are hot,the other options are not for me.
So grow not weary in well doing...When the seed is sown its not for us to determine wether its falls on good ground or rocky ground only to sow the seed,and I have a sack of seed that never empties, so I throw it out someone else will water and hopefully America will wake up to what is going on...........

Will christians stand before GOD and hear well done my good and faithful servant?

Epshesians 5:11 tells us what we are to be doing .

 

While you may have been in "a lot" of churches, you have not even scratched the surface of the tens of thousands of churches there are in this world, let alone this country alone.

I belong to the Christian and Missionary Alliance which has tens of thousands of churches world wide. We are a conservative denomination and our focus is on helping the poor and needy with the basic human needs along with bringing them into a personal relationship with their Creator and Savior Jesus Christ.

My brother belongs to an independant baptist church about twenty miles from me which is conservative and they too send missionaries abroad and do many community services.

ABout a mile from me there is also a conservative brethern church which also is very helpful to the community.

So even though your experiences has found some (even if you have been in 1000 it is still only "some" compared to what is out there) conservative churches lacking you are very wrong to paint them as "mostly" non-giving to the needs of their communities nor world wide.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

I have a lot of respect for CMA churches and I know they do stress helping others. Sadly there are none in the are where I live. And I do think CMA is conservative theologically, but do not consider them fundamentalists. Why? Because the CAM people I have met do not have the "I am so holy and you are so wrong" attitude that I run into from fundamentalists. God bless you in you work and in your church as it ministers to the world.:wavey:

 

Common sense tells a person to be discerning.:tonofbricks:

 

Oh-- the words of Jesus do not contain "common sense;" we must add what have of that ourselves! Okay.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PastorSBC1303
Aren't we glad we have folks like poncho to tell us all how "clueless" we are...

CTers have a fundamental belief that most people, other than their allknowing enlightened selves, are "clueless".

It comes with the territory.

 

Jesus calls us into discipleship where we are led by the Spirit and given personal guidance on how we should act in various situations. If you've studied the teaching of Jesus you should know this. It's not "common sense" but instead guidance from the Master for each situation.

I'm bewildered by your desire to portray the teachings of Jesus as somehow faulty in your zeal to promote Paul. However the teachings of Jesus do not make much sense when we willingly divorce them from discipleship... which is what usually happens in most of our churches. We tend to try to take the teachings of Jesus as rules we follow in our own strength instead of following in the way of Jesus so that our character is transformed and we naturally respond in wisdom and generosity toward those who are truly in need.

 

God Bless you as well!

:jesus:

Just what is a "fundamentalist" ?