What's with this parade I saw in Spain?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by john6:63, Nov 7, 2003.

  1. john6:63

    john6:63
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    Since there’s been some discussion concerning statues of Peter and Mary worship, I remembered a Catholic parade of some sort I saw while I was in the Navy (’92-’96) when I visited Barcelona Spain. A statue of Mary was on a platform and was being carried by, what I’m assuming were 4 alter boys, but as the statue of Mary passed by, the people in the crowd would drop to their knees. Kinda reminded me of that parade scene in the Godfather II. At the time I just brushed it off and we looked for the nearest bar.

    I assure you I’m not making this up. Any idea what the significance was?
     
  2. MikeS

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    I'm just guessing, but you probably wanted to have a few drinks.
     
  3. john6:63

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    Yeah I did. You know my wife’s family is Catholic from S. Louisiana. I met my wife when I got out of the Navy and we took a little trip to S. Louisiana to a wedding. I was still in my partying stage and I tell you, they sure know how to drink! Heck, even the priest was doing shots with us.

    At the time the thought crossed my mind to convert to Catholic. But by the grace of God in the year of 2000, I was crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
     
  4. Stephen III

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    Call us in 5 years when your fully Catholic.

    Oh and enjoy the ride.. [​IMG]
     
  5. MikeS

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    And all the evidence says that he'll be a better Catholic because of that ride! [​IMG]
     
  6. john6:63

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    Lets not dodge the question.
     
  7. MikeS

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    Lets not dodge the question. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not Spanish, born and raised in that particular town, so I'd only be guessing. Is kneeling automatically equated with worship? When people knelt before royalty (mostly in the past, but still sometimes today) are they worshipping that person?

    If your point is that reverence for Mary is greater in some parts of the Catholic world than in others, it's not a new observation.

    Catholics are not taught to worship Mary. Catholics are taught to worship God and God alone. Don't assume from outward gestures that you can read hearts.
     
  8. Stephen III

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    John,

    It truly sounds like a case of some over zealous locals caught up in the 200 or more year old local tradition of honoring the Virgin Mary.
    To a casual outsider onlooker through the distorted lens of hindsight it sounds as if you prefer to view the event as some sort of conclusive evidence that the Catholic Church worships 1.) statues 2.) Mary or 3.)Spanish altar boys carrying large versions of dashboard saints.

    For the record, ........ no..........in all cases.
     
  9. MikeS

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    Or, to put it another way, you try to shepard a billion people all across the globe and see if a few don't veer a bit from the straight and narrow.

    Herding cats is nothing compared to herding religious believers!
     
  10. john6:63

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    According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (490-492), Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception. But in Luke 1:46-47, Mary knew she need a savior. … Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

    According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (411 & 493), Mary, "the All-Holy," lived a perfectly sinless life. But Romans 3:23 says that ALL have sinned and, and come short of the glory of God. Hewbrews 4:15, 2 Corinthians 5:21 and 1 Peter 2:22 all says that Jesus Christ is the only one sinless.
     
  11. CatholicConvert

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  12. CatholicConvert

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    John --

    In the Orthodox Catholic Church, we have a somewhat similar tradition. However, we use icons rather than statuary. They are much nicer to look at and they don't break if they are dropped (*GASP*!!!)

    Yes, accidents happen.

    Now, the real question is this...what exactly is the purpose here?

    John, we are a family. We have a familial Head (our Lord Jesus Christ) and we have a familial helpmeet to that Head (our Blessed Mother). Jesus is the Last Adam (1 Corin. 15:45). The Blessed Virgin is the Last Eve. In effect, she is our Mother.

    The saints are our brothers and sisters. It is a family.

    When I was a Presbyterian, I thought a lot about the kingdom of God and the idea of being part of that kingdom and serving my Lord. When I first walked into ST. ANN'S BYZANTINE CATHOLIC CHURCH (please click on this link and look at the pictures)and looked around, I realized that I was really in a beautiful castle, a place fit for a king to live.

    Notice that on the sides of each wall that there are icons of our Lord, the Blessed Virgin, and the saints, including all the apostles and the Last Supper. On the back wall is a giant icon of the Last Judgment.

    Isn't this what you find in any household -- pictures of the family and the special events of that family? Would the household of a king be any different?

    This is our family. The events the icons depict are extremely special events in the lives of our family which command special respect, such as the Icon of the Resurrection.

    We also have feast days in which we celebrate these events. When we have a feast day, we take an icon which depicts the event and have a procession around the church. For instance, on Holy Saturday of Pascha (Easter) we take the Cross, the Icon of the Resurrection, and the banners of the Blessed Virgin and St. Ann and leave the church in the dead of night. We process the church slowly, singing hymns. The lights inside and outside the Church are turned out. Upon coming back to the door of the church, Fr. Mike takes his hand cross and strikes the doorposts, making the sign of the Cross and proclaiming "CHRIST IS RISEN!!!"

    And when He does, all the lights come on, symbolizing that Christ, as the Light of the world, is risen. It is a very beautiful and striking ceremony. And every symbolism in it speaks of Christ and what He has done for us.

    We have processions to honor the Blessed Virgin for what she did. We have a procession to honor St. Ann, the patroness of our church. We have one to honor John the Baptist, the forerunner of Christ. In each case, we are honoring family members and remembering them and their great lives which inspire us to more fully live our profession of faith.

    What child would not honor his mother? What child would not look up to and honor his older sister or brother? THAT is what this is all about.

    Oh yes, there are people who go overboard. I have heard the horror stories of those who are poorly catechized who have said things about the Blessed Virgin which they ought not to say --things that make her sound like a goddess. But as it was said above -- pastoring a billion people has to be like herding cats and there are going to be those who need to be properly instructed in the ancient faith.

    As for the issue of Mary's sinlessness.

    You do realize that She was saved, right? The only difference is that the Blood of Christ, the Cross work of justification and redemption, was applied to her soul at the moment of conception. With us, it is usually after a considerable life of sin She was saved before she could sin and we are saved after we have sinned. What's the difference. We still both agree that He saved us, as is shown by her Magnificat.

    Cordially in Christ, through the Theotokos,

    Brother Ed


    PS Louisanana, eh? So do you git etouffe, crawfish stews, and other Cajun cookin?

    YOU LUCKY DOG!!!! [​IMG]
     
  13. BobRyan

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    Significance??

    Well let's see ---

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. BobRyan

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    Of course - that RC teaching above - might not be the "only reason" they worship at her altars...

    See below.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
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    Hi Bob,

    Catholics do not worship Mary at their altars. That would be idolatry - that is, to offer sacrifice to Mary. Mary is a creature who has been given various perogatives by God. You may disagree with whether these perogatives were given to Mary and you should state your disagreement and your reasons for disagreeing. But, please do not misrepresent the Catholics on this board.
     
  16. BobRyan

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    OK -- Please let me know if I have this quote right.


    If so - then I "see" worship taking place - do you?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
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    If so - then I "see" worship taking place - do you?

    Of course I don't.

    I believe you're confused as to the nature of worship due to your sacrifice-less Christianity.
     
  18. BobRyan

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    Hebrews 10 tells us there was One Sacrifice Offered "once for all time".

    It does not tell us of "continual sacrifice" or of "Continual offering of the sacrifice".

    I believe it.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. Carson Weber

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    Hebrews 10 tells us there was One Sacrifice Offered "once for all time".

    Amen.

    It does not tell us of "continual sacrifice" or of "Continual offering of the sacrifice".

    If you read Hebrews carefully, you will notice that Jesus, our High Priest is currently a minister in heaven and has something to offer: his one sacrifice.

    "[W]e have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, a minister in the sanctuary and the true tent which is set up not by man but by the Lord. For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; hence it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer" (8:1-3).
     
  20. MikeS

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    How great is Christ's love for us! Rejoice and be glad! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     

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