What's wrong with "The Message" ?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Amity, Dec 24, 2004.

  1. Amity

    Amity
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    I was doing a comparative study between the KJV Bible and the "Message" paraphrase, and now that I've compared them I have a HUGE problem. If there is but ONE verse that is questionable, then it should be clear that this translation (or paraphrase) should not be used. I would go so far as to call it a modern <snipped>version rather than a modern version. There are a lot of key verses that have been clouded by man’s mis-interpretation.
    First, let me just say this. (Or let the Word of God say it for me) 2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.”KJV

    Just check out a couple of verses here:

    First, probably the most well known verse in the entire world:
    from the KJV:
    John 3:16
    For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

    AMEN to that!!!

    the Message:
    John 3
    16"This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life.

    (The Message does not reference everlasting life at all....it says a whole and lasting life....too confusing for one who does not already understand the Word of God.....especially people who are unsaved and seeking to know His Word for the first time).

    Here's another one that is very important:
    the Message:
    Titus 1
    2My aim is to raise hopes by pointing the way to life without end. This is the life God promised long ago--and he doesn't break promises!

    KJV:
    Titus 1
    2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    Promised before the world began, not "long ago"......and God can not LIE! That's important to hear! God can not lie!

    But, this one, may just be the most important one of all. The famous Romans 10:9-13 which is one of the more popular scriptures which tells us the way to Heaven:

    KJV:
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    This clearly states, believe in your heart, and confess with your mouth, and you shall have salvation, be saved, it's your ticket to Heaven! Amen! Also says, you shall not be ashamed! Go and shout it to the world! It also says, doesn't matter if you're Jew or Greek...if you believe that Jesus is your saviour and he died on the cross at Calvary for you, salvation is yours!

    The Message version:
    9Say the welcoming word to God--"Jesus is my Master"--embracing, body and soul, God's work of doing in us what he did in raising Jesus from the dead. That's it. You're not "doing" anything; you're simply calling out to God, trusting him to do it for you. That's salvation. 10With your whole being you embrace God setting things right, and then you say it, right out loud: "God has set everything right between him and me!"
    11Scripture reassures us, "No one who trusts God like this--heart and soul--will ever regret it." 12It's exactly the same no matter what a person's religious background may be: the same God for all of us, acting the same incredibly generous way to everyone who calls out for help. 13"Everyone who calls, "Help, God!' gets help."

    This Message version is saying that no matter what religious background we have, basically we worship the same God. HUH????????? NO!!!! And, at the end, notice it says, "everyone who calls "Help God" gets help." Right after they basically just said "Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, Christians, all worship the same God, and all of them that call upon that same God gets help". That’s not what my Bible says. That’s not what the Muslim’s Koran says, either. And, these verses are about the plan of salvation and the Message has totally twisted and turned it around.

    Before I go any further, I’ll give you one that I DO agree with that is not misleading in the Message, from the first chapter of Paul’s letter to the Galatians. The author of the Message, Eugene Peterson, should have heeded these words he wrote.

    Message:
    Galatians 1
    8Let me be blunt: If one of us--even if an angel from heaven were to preach something other than what we preached originally, let him be cursed. 9I said it once; I'll say it again: If anyone, regardless of reputation or credentials, preaches something other than what you received originally, let him be cursed.
    10Do you think I speak this strongly in order to manipulate crowds? Or curry favor with God? Or get popular applause? If my goal was popularity, I wouldn't bother being Christ's slave. 11Know this--I am most emphatic here, friends--this great Message I delivered to you is not mere human optimism. 12I didn't receive it through the traditions, and I wasn't taught it in some school. I got it straight from God, received the Message directly from Jesus Christ.

    That’s right! Paul received God’s message directly from Jesus Christ, Mr. Peterson....leave it alone already!

    Here are some more that are perversions of the Word of God, just for your reference.
    Passages from The Message that are horribly off:

    KJV
    Romans 1
    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    Message
    Romans 1
    20By taking a long and thoughtful look at what God has created, people have always been able to see what their eyes as such can't see: eternal power, for instance, and the mystery of his divine being. So nobody has a good excuse.

    KJV specifically mentions the Godhead (Trinity, Three-in-one). The message just says “mystery of his divine being”

    KJV
    Romans 1
    27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    Message
    27Sexually confused, they abused and defiled one another, women with women, men with men--all lust, no love. And then they paid for it, oh, how they paid for it--emptied of God and love, godless and loveless wretches.

    In the above, the KJV says men with men is unseemly, their error. (There are many more verses in the Bible which condemn this kind of behavior, even calling it abhorrent and vile) The Message says homosexuality is okay as long as it’s love and not lust.

    KJV
    Romans 16
    1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

    Message
    Romans 16
    1Be sure to welcome our friend Phoebe in the way of the Master, with all the generous hospitality we Christians are famous for. I heartily endorse both her and her work. She's a key representative of the church at Cenchrea.

    Paul said Phebe was a servant of the church. We all know that the Lord gave both men and women roles as disciples for Him. But we have distinct gender rolls. The author of the Message, not knowing what role she played, said Paul endorsed her as a “key representative” of the church. This is a blatant attempt by one man to have modern society believe that Paul condoned the work of women as authorities in the church during his time, which we learn from scriptures is completely and totally false.

    KJV
    Romans 16
    25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
    26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

    Message
    25All of our praise rises to the One who is strong enough to make you strong, exactly as preached in Jesus Christ, precisely as revealed in the mystery kept secret for so long.
    26but now an open book through the prophetic Scriptures. All the nations of the world can now know the truth and be brought into obedient belief, carrying out the orders of God, who got all this started, down to the very last letter.

    I had a big problem with the above verses for one, because everlasting God was referred to as God. This is done way too much in the Message. Removing the words “everlasting” or “eternal”. Also, it creates an entire phrase that has nothing to do with the original text, see the end of v. 26.

    KJV
    1 Corinthians 4
    3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

    Message
    1 Corinthians 4
    3It matters very little to me what you think of me, even less where I rank in popular opinion. I don't even rank myself. Comparisons in these matters are pointless.

    I believe the above verse in the KJV, by Paul saying he does not judge himself, is because it is God who judges him. The Message says comparisons are pointless. Way off on the context.

    KJV
    1 Corinthians 10
    33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

    Message
    1 Corinthians 10
    33I try my best to be considerate of everyone's feelings in all these matters; I hope you will be, too.

    This one above is another example of the talk of salvation being totally omitted from the Message.

    KJV
    1 Corinthians 11
    7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
    8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
    9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man

    Message
    1 Corinthians 11
    7-9men and women, who far too often butt heads with each other, submit their "heads" to the Head: God.

    This is an example of the author of the Message trying to pretend that Paul didn’t really say what he said, just because it doesn’t fit in with today’s society. Just plain perversion of the Word. He even combined the verses because “society” is so against what v. 8 said!

    KJV
    1 Corinthians 4
    1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

    Message
    1 Corinthians 14
    1Go after a life of love as if your life depended on it--because it does. Give yourselves to the gifts God gives you. Most of all, try to proclaim his truth.

    TRY to proclaim his truth? TRY? HUH?

    KJV
    1 Corinthians 16
    22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

    Anathema means “fitted for destruction” Maranatha means “the Lord comes”. This verse is saying when the Lord returns, the unbelievers will be destroyed. See below for how the Message perverted this verse.

    Message
    1 Corinthians 16
    22If anyone won't love the Master, throw him out. Make room for the Master!


    KJV
    Ephesians 2
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    These verses are telling us that it is by the grace of God, through our faith in Jesus Christ that we are going to heaven, not by the works that we do. We don’t play any role at all through the good works that we do in order to get to heaven. Our faith secures that, otherwise, Jesus’ death on the cross would have been in vain. And we know he did not suffer for us in vain! The Message below doesn’t get it across to me.

    Message
    Ephesians 2
    8Saving is all his idea, and all his work. All we do is trust him enough to let him do it. It's God's gift from start to finish! 9We don't play the major role. If we did, we'd probably go around bragging that we'd done the whole thing!


    KJV
    Ephesians 5
    2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

    Message
    Ephesians 5
    2Mostly what God does is love you. Keep company with him and learn a life of love. Observe how Christ loved us. His love was not cautious but extravagant. He didn't love in order to get something from us but to give everything of himself to us. Love like that.

    Not once above does the Message say that what he gave was him as an offering and sacrifice to God.


    KJV
    Ephesians 6
    12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
    13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
    14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
    15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
    16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
    17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

    Message
    Ephesians 6
    12This is no afternoon athletic contest that we'll walk away from and forget about in a couple of hours. This is for keeps, a life-or-death fight to the finish against the Devil and all his angels.
    13Be prepared. You're up against far more than you can handle on your own. Take all the help you can get, every weapon God has issued, so that when it's all over but the shouting you'll still be on your feet. 14Truth, righteousness, 15peace, 16faith, 17and salvation are more than words. Learn how to apply them. You'll need them throughout your life. God's Word is an indispensable weapon.

    No explanation necessary above. It’s all there in the reading. (As it is with most of these scriptures, but I’m long winded in my commentary sometimes...always have been)


    KJV
    Colossians 2
    7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

    Message
    Colossians 2
    7You're deeply rooted in him. You're well constructed upon him. You know your way around the faith. Now do what you've been taught. School's out; quit studying the subject and start living it! And let your living spill over into thanksgiving.

    Is it just me, or did the Message just tell me to stop reading my Bible now that I know the Truth?

    KJV
    1 Thessalonians 5
    22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

    In other words, don’t do anything that would appear evil, whether how you dress, act, talk, etc.

    Message
    1 Thessalonians 5
    22Throw out anything tainted with evil.


    KJV
    2 Thessalonians 1
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    Message
    2 Thessalonians 1
    7His coming will be the break we've been waiting for. 8Those who refuse to know God and refuse to obey the Message will pay for what they've done. 9Eternal exile from the presence of the Master and his splendid power is their sentence.

    V. 8&9 are too cushy here. Tell them what they’re really gonna get! Everlasting destruction, flaming fire!

    KJV
    1 Timothy 1
    12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

    Message
    1 Timothy 1
    12I'm so grateful to Christ Jesus for making me adequate to do this work. He went out on a limb, you know, in trusting me with this ministry.

    Went out on a limb? As if he didn’t know what he was doing or getting into? Christ Jesus going out on a limb? The Message surely underestimates the power of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!


    KJV
    1 Timothy 3
    8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
    9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
    10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
    11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
    12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
    13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    Message
    1 Timothy 3
    8The same goes for those who want to be servants in the church: serious, not deceitful, not too free with the bottle, not in it for what they can get out of it. 9They must be reverent before the mystery of the faith, not using their position to try to run things. 10Let them prove themselves first. If they show they can do it, take them on. 11No exceptions are to be made for women--same qualifications: serious, dependable, not sharp-tongued, not overfond of wine. 12Servants in the church are to be committed to their spouses, attentive to their own children, and diligent in looking after their own affairs. 13Those who do this servant work will come to be highly respected, a real credit to this Jesus-faith.

    The above passage is another example of the author of the Message making it look as if gender roles do not differ, making his message about a neutral sex.


    This is as far as I have compared at this point. Hebrews would be next, but I think I’ve gone far enough. Although, I would just like to add Hebrews 10:17. Such a comforting verse, giving us assurance that as soon as we accept salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, he will no longer remember our sins! Amen! He won’t remember them! That’s so important! Gone, forever, no guilt necessary for our past lives. Here’s what the KJV says:

    Hebrews 10:17 “And their sins and iniquities I will remember no more.”

    Praise God! He is just too good to us! We don’t deserve that, but that’s how much he loves us! Even check out the NIV (New International Version) on this one:

    Hebrews 10:17 “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more”

    Here’s the Good News (TEV or Today’s English Version) on that one

    Hebrews 10:17 “I will not remember their sins and evil deeds any longer.”

    Ready for the Message version of this wonderful verse, telling us that not only does God forgive us of our sins, he doesn’t even remember them! Here it is:

    Hebrews 10
    17He concludes, I'll forever wipe the slate clean of their sins.

    Don’t know about any of you, but that doesn’t do it for to me. I’ll stick to the God-inspired scriptures.


    As for the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, after the few scriptures in John that I compared, I refused to study those any further with this version. It saddened me to see it say “and Jesus said”, and then not see what Jesus really said.


    Amity
    6/25/04

    The word "perversion" is strictly prohibited

    [ December 24, 2004, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    No support for the Message from me.
     
  3. Amity

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    Thank you for the edit, C4K. I suppose it would do me good to read the posting rules prior to participating further. [​IMG]

    love in Christ,
    Amity
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    You won't find many here who think any paraphrase should be compared to any translation.

    Also, Am, you might consider "bite sized" info. You won't find many here who will read posts of that length.
     
  5. WallyGator

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    Cannot get into the Message. Just my personal opinion. Amen, to long posts. Just won't read them. Just my opinion.
     
  6. GrannyGumbo

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    Thanks, Amity! I've never looked at or read anything other than that blessed ol'Book, because for me, there is no other Bible; so I, for one, do appreciate your "long" post! God bless you for sharing and... take care.
     
  7. Amity

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    I posted this recent study I had done in it's entirety. A friend of mine from a denomination I used to be affiliated with called and asked my opinion on this paraphrase because their newly appointed pastor was going to be using it from the pulpit.


    Basically, it sums up as being a paraphrase that eliminates eternal life, salvation, Hell, gender rolls, and promotes pluralism, evolution and homosexuality.

    love in Christ,
    Amity
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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  9. natters

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    Not to stir the pot too much, I personally really like The Message, but I take it for what it is: a loose paraphrase and not a formal translation.
     
  10. Priscilla Ann

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    Personally, I don't care for The Message. When read it, I don't feel like I am actually reading the Bible, perhaps because it is a paraphrase. It lacks the beauty and power of the KJV, NASB or NIV.
     
  11. SteveD

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    The book the purpose driven life is full of quotes from the message. Have you heard of that book and what do you think of it
     
  12. gb93433

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    When I first became a Christian I was given a KJV Bible and tried reading it for awhile. But after a few days I just put it aside until I went to the local Bible bookstore. I bought an NAS and read it a lot more but still did not understand some things. Then I got ahold of a Living Bible and read it even more. I got to the point where I was reading and studying about one hour per day. Initially I read the KJV about 10 min. and finally put it on the shelf because I did not undertsand what I was reading. I did not grow up in a Christian home. So the Bible was not read.

    Today I can read any of those versions and understand them. But I prefer my Greek NT and Hebrew OT.

    More important is that the person understand God's message and what He commands.

    I never get too concerned over what translation or paraphrase the person reads just as long as they are reading and growing.

    When they grow eventually they will share their faith and begin to make disciples. Is Mt. 4:19 a lie or the truth?
     
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Hi Steve and welcome to the board.

    You might be better advised asking your question about "Purpose Driven Life" in the books and publications forum.
     
  14. Amity

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    Hi SteveD. I have read the Purpose Driven life book (40 days of purpose) and found that the author took great liberty in using verses out of context to make the points he was trying for.

    My advice? Want 40 days of purpose? Read your Bible for 40 days! ;) (and don't stop there...)
     
  15. SteveD

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    Thank you C4K for your advice on were to start a discusion on the book Purpose Driven Life.

    Thank you Amity for your evaluation on the book. I came to the same conclusion
     
  16. Craigbythesea

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    Amity wrote,

    There are VERY MANY questionable verses in the KJV, especially in the older editions, so according to Amity none of us should use the KJV :D . And of course the New Testament writers used and quoted from the Septuagint, which includes more questionable verses than any other translation of the Old Testament currently on the market, so the writers of the New Testament were using a translation that, according to Amity, using her own words, clearly should not be used :eek: . And if Amity believes that the New Testament writers were inspired by God, then God was using a translation that, according to Amity, clearly should not be used :eek: . And if God was doing what He should not be doing, God was sinning. :eek: :eek: :eek:

    I have read a lot of junk by KJO fanatics, but for them to claim that God is a sinner and sinned in the very act of giving us the Bible, that is a bit much! But then again, what can we expect from a group that has their head screwed on backwards and inside out for all the world to see that it is empty. :rolleyes:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Phillip

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    Craigbythesea, Interesting post.

    Since the entire Apocrypha is questionable. For those AV1611 folks, well, what can I say?
     
  18. Dr. Bob

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    PDL uses quotations from a multitude of translations and paraphrases. It is one of the glaring weaknesses of the book.

    Only thing worse would have been to just quote once version whose wording would be so difficult that no one could understand it. Think that is why Pastor Warren chose to blend so many.
     
  19. James_Newman

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    2Chronicles 18
    19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.
    20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
    21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
    22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

    Was the Lord sinning here?
     
  20. gb93433

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    2Chronicles 18
    19 And the LORD said,
    Was the Lord sinning here?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Do you not get his point?
     

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