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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HisWitness, Aug 22, 2012.
when and where do you think that the apostle of the gentiles(Paul)was saved????
some will say the road to Damascus---but is that really where Paul was saved ?
"....when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother`s womb, and called me through his grace, to reveal his Son in me..."
John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit from his mother's womb, David was made to hope while on his mother's breast, Isaac was born after the Spirit by the time of his weaning, Paul was separated from his mother's womb to preach Christ among the Gentiles.
Don't know what you mean by 'saved'. The majority of Christianity goms it up to mean the birth from above and/or the acquisition of eternal life. What actually occured on the road to Damascus was Paul being made whole, being brought into the kingdom, and that only WHEN it was the good pleasure of God to do so.
Paul was elect from the foundation of the world but did not have faith in Christ until Jesus blinded him on the road to Damascus. That is when Paul became a member of the body of Christ and received eternal life.
In his own words, Paul says it was when he believed in Jesus (Gal. 2:16). I will like to think that this happened in that Damascus road experience.
In Acts 9, Paul asked the voice, "Who are you, Lord?"
When Jesus identified himself, I think that's when Paul was converted.
I also think he was converted at that time!
election does NOT mean salvation, but faith in jesus does!
if i may state some facts Paul himself said in Romans chap 10 v13-whosoever calls upon the Lord shall be save--ok;;did paul call on the name of the Lord at the road--Jesus appeared and paul was blinded and Jesus said Saul-why persecute thou me?saul asked a QUESTION-who are thou Lord and jesus said im jesus who you are persecuting--now Paul was trembling and astonished-Paul asks another QUESTION-what will thou have me to do?Jesus told him to go into the city(Damascus)and it would be told him what he must do--in all this we see paul asking questions and jesus answering him--no where here does Paul believe or call upon the Lord as a needy man will do when hes at his ropes end--but consider paul went into the city(3 days without drink or food--Paul was under HEAVY Conviction from the Lord--God showed Ananias to go to Paul exactly where he was at--so Ananias came and said to paul why do you tarry--arise be BAPTISED--CALLING on the name of the Lord--so by pauls own comment of who so ever calls they shall be save he called in the city of Damascus 3 days after on the road--notice the holy spirit conviction he was under and later he said in Philippians chap 3 that the things that were gain to him(all of his splendor and who he was)he counted but dung(we know what that is)that he might gain Christ--in essence on the rooftop under conviction for 3 days God brought him to the end of his self and he CALLED upon the Lord for salvation and was BAPTISED.
Good point HW. :thumbsup:
Let's throw these observations into the mix.
In 9:11 In a vision, God tells Ananias that he is to go to Paul. He said Paul is praying and has seen a vision of Ananias. He describes Saul as his chosen instrument.
In v.17, when Ananias arrives, he calls him Brother Saul. This indicates that he is already saved.
Only then was he baptized.
Ananias laid hands on Saul and called him brother and Saul received the Holy Spirit and went from being blind to able to see, in more ways than one. God then translated Saul from being ignorant in unbelief unto belief. Saul was sanctified and justified and this came about because of the faith of Jesus Christ or so says scripture Acts 9:17, 1 Tim. 1:13, Gal. 2:16.
Yes, but when Paul gives his testimony to King Agrippa, what does he recount? He tells about what happened on the road to Damascus, but mentions nothing of Ananias. I wonder why he left that out? I think Paul believed he was saved on the road to Damascus.
Notice what Ananias says to Paul. He tells him to be filled with the Spirit, which is different from the baptism of the Spirit. This was power for service, not salvation. Paul was already saved.
Acts 9:17-19 (ESV)
17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized;
19 and taking food, he was strengthened. For some days he was with the disciples at Damascus.
when someone called another Brother in that time--that word means of the same fold --they were jews and they called one Brother and Paul still did not call upon the Lord as he says one must do to be saved till 3 days after in the city--another comment on the Brother-- Ana was already told by God Paul was a chosen vessel--so Ana knew that God was going to save him so he could have called him Brother in advance ?
We use the word saved to cover a lot. He was called on the road to Damascus.
As Jesus said, "My sheep (Saul) hear my voice (the call) and I know them, and they follow me."(Work of Holy Spirit) Also Gal. 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God.
When God knows us then and only then can we know him.
It will be helpful to cite other scripture instances where a Jew called another Jew "brother."
He heard and answered the call on the road to Damascus, calling Jesus Lord. That faith, even to those who believe on His name, was saving faith to Paul. I am not sure what you are trying to say about God knowing us. Of course he knows us, saved or not, he made us. He set Paul apart before he called him, so your point is moot, no offense.
the word LORD is also used as a title of respect towards them that are higher than yourself also or someone above you---the devils believe in jesus and the bible says they tremble--luke 4-34 the demons says to jesus i know who thou art--thou art the HOLY on of GOD--demons will never be savedand they know who CHRIST is.
a case where someone calls others brethern in scripture--acts 7-2,acts 7-23,acts 7 25-26,, acts 7-51 he tells the same grp of people who he called brethern that as their fathers resisted the holy ghost so they did also and this same grp of fellow jews(BRETHERN) are the ones who stoned him.
I am saying that it is God who calls and God who saves through Jesus. Jesus knows who are his sheep and he calls his sheep. Until the time of being called even the sheep are ignorant in unbelief. They cannot believe until God calls them. Until they are known of God, an intimate, knowing then they in return can know God. Why do you thing Gal. 4:9 is worded the way it is? But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Paul knew who Jesus was, Paul knew Jesus was being preached as being the Christ, the Son of God, resurrected from the dead, Paul heard the sermon of Stephen, and I would venture to say he even heard Peter preach on the day of Pentecost, though we are not directly told that. However Paul did not believe Jesus was the Christ nor had he been resurrected. He was in unbelief.
He was blind even before he was blind and was shown he was blind by being blinded.
We are told that after he was filled with the Spirit and strengthened he immediately began to preach Jesus the Christ as the Son of God, resurrected, that is brought back to life from the dead.