When are Christians forgiven?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Jarlaxle, Jan 27, 2003.

  1. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle
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    Consider the passage in 1 John about “walking in the light.”

    This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

    If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.


    Are we continually forgiven of sins as we commit them, or are we not forgiven until after we have confessed them?
    :confused:
     
  2. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle
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    No takers on this one?
     
  3. neal4christ

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    I don't know if I would consider myself a 'taker', but at first look it appears to be conditional. 'If' we confess, 'then' we are forgiven. At first glance it appears that 'yes', we need to confess sin.

    That said, I have never believed that we must confess every sin to be forgiven of it. I actually started thinking of this verse the other day, trying to decide what it really means. I haven't been able to make sense of it yet.

    So basically, I am not sure, one way or another. As you can see, I am a little confused on this one. :confused:

    Neal
     
  4. neal4christ

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    Just a quick after thought, I just looked up the Greek word translated 'confess' here and it means to "agree with."

    Neal
     
  5. Me2

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    First of all..set the scene..

    the light is a reference to an OT tabernacle scene.

    the 7 candlestick light inside the tabernacle is what is being spoken of..

    walking into the tabernacle and fellowshiping inside...the light...remember the shewbread inside the tabernacle..

    and there are three kinds of light..natural (outside the tabernacle) light of the reflection of the son...the candlesticks..and inside the holy of holies..the shekinah glory of God...

    this is a reference to pursue the goal of becoming sanctified to enter the tabernacle.

    recognize that they are not completely purified..still have sin..really its referring to remind the CHILD to beware of pending tribulations and tests of faith...recognize that these children still recognize christ as their propitiator before God..He's their high priest...their still a child growing in faith.

    Now can you tell me what your questions refer to they are included in chapter 2..
    ie., child, young man and father ?

    Me2
     
  6. Jarlaxle

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    Forgive me, Me2, but I ain't got a clue as to what you are talking about.. :confused: :confused:
     
  7. Lorelei

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    Christ died once for all sins (Rom 6:10). Hebrews tells us:

    Christ forgave all sins, past present and future. If he didn't we would have no sacrifice left for sins. Remember Christ forgave your sins on the cross, long before you were born, and there is no work left to be done.

    The verse in 1 John is not talking to believers, but unbelievers. Notice verse 8

    He says that if we claim to be without sin then the truth is not in us. Look at what the same author says in 2 John about the truth being in us.

    He says that if we have the truth in us (Jesus), that truth will live in us and will be with us forever. Those who don't have the truth in them are not believers, otherwise that truth would be in them forever. It isn't something you gain and lose, nor did the author insinuate as such.

    So all we must do is confess our sins once, accept him as our savior then walk in the Spirit that gives us life and will help us grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    ~Lorelei
     
  8. Me2

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    the first 2 chapters of 1 john speaks of a process of sanctification. and the levels that are easily recognized. child, young man and father.
    He mainly is speaking to believers with a newly child like faith. with the instructions to be humble before God, love their brothers and beware of antichrists and idols.

    the first statement referring to sin sounds much like a warning or admonition...

    1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    but as the child like faith grows..it changes levels and understandings of self elevating ones faith to deeper things of the lord.

    the child referrs to jesus as christ..their propitiator. the have not been proven of faith nor have they died to self yet. nor have they recognized what being resurrected and dead in christ is yet... the biggest earmark..Jesus is not their Lord Yet. and then the negatives of doubt and confusion and fear of sinning against God.

    the second sounds more like an affirmation.

    this child's faith is currently being tested.
    or in simpler terms..receiving the second part of this faith..the understanding.

    we later hear John state..

    1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    The holy spirit will soon become a living part of this person as they soon understand God is truly inside of them and their spirit is not their own..
    It is the spirit of Jesus and He has already conquered Sin...He cannot Sin.
    or The believer cant...their spirit is "dead".

    you do sin, but you really dont...
    its impossible, if You believe your dead to sin...

    What does paul say about this?

    Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
    Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
    Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
    Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

    Its living by faith and not by sight...
    really..just existing is sinning.

    This is a good time to ask yourself, just what is actually involved in living (and believing) by faith...just understanding it is a mental feat of Gymnastics..Do we stop sinning, or does Jesus destroy all of our desires ?

    We want a list of things to do in this process but we soon discover..its none of me and all of him..
    he comes to destroy all our enemies before us..
    The world, The flesh, and The devil...

    Notice in 1 John..The inference to beware of the antichrists and idols...he's already targeting the flesh and the world in the childs life...

    The Lord is revealing himself to this child....
     
  9. Johnv

    Johnv
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    The only sinless man is a dead man.
     
  10. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    I am a sinner saved by grace. I know that Jesus died for all of my sins-past, present and future.
    I may not have to confess each sin to get God's forgiveness; but it sure helps me to keep my life in order when I do. Maybe we need to confess our sins so we can forgive ourselves?

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  11. Ben W

    Ben W
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    We are forgiven of sin the moment we ask to be. Every single person that dies does so with sin in their life. And Jesus blood covers that sin.

    Have you been washed by the blood?
     
  12. Johnv

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    Maybe we need to confess our sins so we can forgive ourselves?

    Dingdingding!!!!! great point.

    God's forgiveness of sins is a gift. A gift cannot be a gift unless it is accepted. One cannot accept the gift of forgiveness unless he confesses. That's just my $.02
     
  13. Carson Weber

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    Hi Ben,

    You wrote, "Every single person that dies does so with sin in their life. And Jesus blood covers that sin."

    But, then, of course, we have Paul who writes the following in the fifth chapter of his epistle to the Galatians:

    Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Perhaps Jesus' blood does more than cover sin?

    And what about what Jesus Christ says in his Holy Gospel according to Saint Mark 4:1-20? What if you are the rocky ground?

    God bless,

    Carson

    [ January 29, 2003, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: Carson Weber ]
     
  14. neal4christ

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    But that is not what the verse says.

    Neal
     
  15. tyndale1946

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    So all dead men are sinless?... Well sin killed him that is for sure... And he can never commit an act of sin... And it says the dead no nothing... but I've never heard a preacher at a funeral say here lies a sinless dead man?... Have you?... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  16. Me2

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    I read your verses once again and can glean a bit more..
    This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

    God is unconditional Love..

    If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

    We accept the unconditional Love From God yet We Deny It to others. We are sinning.

    But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

    For some to believe God only loves them and them alone is denying the truth that God is unconditional Love.

    Although they have no problem in living in a world of Conditional Love. That is not living by grace.
    Not living in it or Giving it to others.
    That is sin. That is being a liar.

    1 joh 2:3 And hereby we do know that we KNOW him, if we keep his commandments..

    Love God
    Love ALL Men

    Unconditionally


    1 Joh 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keep not his commandments is a Liar, and the truth is not in him.

    That is why love was stressed as john was speaking to the little children in christ.

    Me2
    [​IMG]
     
  17. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    But that is not what the verse says.

    Neal
    </font>[/QUOTE]Neal; I wasn't making that statement as scripture. I believe we need to confess our sins so as not to break fellowship with God (I am not talking about losing our salvation). We need to stay in a right relationship with God and I don't feel like I can do that if I have unconfessed sin in my life.

    If I stole from my neighbor and he knew it and was willing to forgive me and maybe already has...I know we could not have fellowship with each other until I had confessed that to him and asked him to forgive me, (for my sake as well as his).

    Sue
     
  18. Carson Weber

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    Hi Sue,

    Do you really think that you can break fellowship with God and remain saved?

    Isn't our salvation precisely our being put into a right relationship with God through Jesus Christ?

    I hope you can understand why it's difficult for me to understand this.

    God bless,

    Carson
     
  19. Bro. Curtis

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    Can I answer your question, Carson ?

    Yes

    Psalms 118:18 The LORD hath chastened me sore: but he hath not given me over unto death.

    God never kicks his children out!!!

    Psalms 51:12 restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

    Here, David knows he's saved, but the joy is missing.

    I know it's in layman's terms, but once saved, is saved once.
     
  20. Carson Weber

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    Hi Curtis,

    You quoted, "Psalms 118:18 The LORD hath chastened me sore: but he hath not given me over unto death."

    Nowhere does the Psalmist say that "death" means "losing salvation". He could very well be referring to his own physical death, which he has not experienced. Also, in no way does "chasten" equal "breaking fellowship with". Our Father disciplines us as his children, but that doesn't mean that we've "broken fellowship with him". It's precisely because we're in fellowship with him that he is able to chasten us as his children!

    You wrote, "God never kicks his children out!"

    I absolutely agree with you. But, what if the child leaves? Take, for instance, the Prodigal Son in Luke 15. He's a son, and this is what the father says to the son's brother when the son returns, "this your brother was once dead, and is now alive; he was lost, and is found".

    You wrote, "Here, David knows he's saved, but the joy is missing." So? I can be in excellent fellowship with God and have lost the joy of the Lord. My feelings are not indicative of whether the Holy Spirit indwells my soul.

    You wrote, "I know it's in layman's terms, but once saved, is saved once."

    So, basically, you're saying that nothing you do in the future can cause you to lose your salvation?

    What if you commit, with full knowledge and consent, the formal acts of adultery and murder tomorrow?

    Would you still be saved? Or would you say that you were just never saved to begin with? Which begs the question, "How do you know that you are saved now since you don't know infallibly whether you'll fall into such sin in your future?"

    God bless,

    Carson

    [ January 30, 2003, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: Carson Weber ]
     

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