When should a church be removed from an association

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Lagardo, Jul 24, 2006.

  1. Lagardo

    Lagardo
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    In light of some past expereince and the thread about churches without "baptist" on the sign, I'm curious at what point an association should remove a church.

    When they changed their name from Anytown Baptist to Anytown Community?

    When their polity is no longer similar to other baptist churches? (they become elder lead, pastor lead, stop holding business meetings, etc.)

    When they have pastors on staff who do not meet biblical qualifications of a pastor?

    When they will not work in cooperation with other churches in the association?

    Just curious,
    Aaron
     
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    I think any Church who is embarrased by their association so much that they remove the association's name from their sign ought to remove themselves from the association.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  3. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    If you set biblical qualifications for the pastorate, that could get interesting quick.
     
  4. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    Are you talking about local associations or national?
     
  5. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    In one two-county Baptist Association in Western Kentucky, several churches and the Association have parted company over "alien" baptism. That is, the churches accept members' baptism from non-Baptist churches, not necessarily of like faith and order.

    These churches adopted similar positions as Bethlehem Baptist Church, Dr. John Piper's church in Minnesota, proposed to do before it backed away for more study.

    Keep an eye on this issue. It won't go away.
     
  6. Deacon

    Deacon
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    Seems that some disgrunted person contacted the GARBC (Regular Baptist) association contacted us after our name change.

    They were interested in knowing if we still held to our Baptist traditions.
    After being reassured, there was no problem.

    Rob
     
  7. Lagardo

    Lagardo
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    You don't think there are biblical qualifications for the pastorate?
     
  8. Lagardo

    Lagardo
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    The church I'm thinking of is an SBC church. To my knowledge the national convention does not expell churches, but rather churches join the SBC through their local associations.
     
  9. Brother Bob

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    When a church refuses to work under the "Articles of Faith, Constitution" of an Association they should be given a chance to comply and if they still refuse then they should be dropped. That is what an Association is where you have the Constitution and Articles of Faith that you may not completely agree with all of them but to have correspondence with one another you all agree to abide by the same Constitution and Articles of Faith. No organization church or anything else can exist very long without order and that is just the fact of life. "If any come among you bearing not this doctrine bid them not into your house".
     
  10. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
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    Most SBC churches are part of the SBC through their local ass'n.

    Since every Association is autonomous in whom they accept into fellowship and from whom they can withdraw fellowship, the power resides in the local ass'n.

    Some Associations have withdrawn fellowship for ordaining women as deacons. Most - if not all - associations will withdraw fellowship for condoning homosexual behavior. There is one in Oklahoma that might be disfellowshipped if they adopt a provision in the church to no longer require believers baptism by immersion for membership.

    I've never heard of a church being dropped simply because they delete Baptist from their name.

    As far as the national SBC, a church can be listed as a SBC church if they give above $400 to the Cooperative Program.
     
  11. drfuss

    drfuss
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    First of all my church has Baptist in its name and has no plans to change it.

    However, what does having Baptist in the name mean anyway? It is not like Baptists churches are a single denomination. When you see Baptist in a church name, do you really know what type of Baptist church it is?
    Independent?
    SBC? IFB? PIlgrim Baptist? Primative Baptist? Free-will Baptist? etc.?

    Sayings a church is Baptist really doesn't mean much to me. I am a Christian who just happens to belong to a Baptist church. I suppose that if someone is Proud to be a Baptist, it would be important. Perhaps we should question just what we should be proud of.
     
  12. 2BHizown

    2BHizown
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    Even if and when the name 'Baptist' is in the title it still doesnt necessarily declare orthodoxy and/or sound doctrine as each congregation is autonomous. It behooves each member to ascertain whether or not the church is sound in its doctrine by searching the scripture as the bereans did to see if what is taught there is scriptural! The name on the sign doesnt determine the teaching being given inside!!
     
  13. webdog

    webdog
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    Great point.
     
  14. christianyouth

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    Dr. Fuss, I was thinking the same thing..

    One thing that has always bothered me is finding out if a church holds to the reformed theology. I went to a Baptist church that was definetly Calvinist, but it they did not really come out and teach the Calvinist doctrines, if you know what I mean.

    Its kind of like colleges like Bob Jones and Marantha, they do not really teach reformed theology or Armianist theology, I find that alittle strange.

    How can you tell what theology a certain Baptist church holds? How would I know if the church I visited is a free-will Baptist church?
     
  15. webdog

    webdog
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    If a church teaches calvinistic or arminianistic theology, they are teaching false doctrine. If they are teaching the Bible (which doesn't support either 100%), I would attend that church.
     
  16. jesnipes

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    My church is a member of an association that has faced this problem for the last three or four years. We have had one church leave the association because they called a woman co-pastor. Another church left because of doctrinal differences. Three or four other churches are considering leaving. (There are also four other churches talking about joining our association).
    The exodus began when our association adopted in Annual Session nearly two years ago the "Baptist Faith and Message 2000" as our statement of faith. Ironically, this is a reason other churches wish to join our fellowship.
    There was a great controversy over unity (can you believe that?). We had several "family meetings" to discuss the discord. These discussions boiled down to one primary question: "What is the basis of unity?" Some (including the churches that left) believed unity was based on belonging to an organization. The majority believed unity was based on commonality of belief. The latter group prevailed, hence the adoption of the BF&M2000.
    Should a church be removed from an association? Yes, if there are differences in doctrine that violate the Constitution or Bylaws. If there is controversy in an association, they must first settle the question: "What do we believe?" This should include the question concerning the church's name.
     
  17. Hope of Glory

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    Yes, but different churches interpret them differently. For example, about half the Baptist churches think that a preacher cannot be divorced at all. I can see a split of an association over this.
     
  18. Lagardo

    Lagardo
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    That's a good example. Should an association have a specific interpretation of these qualifications or allow differences to exist amongst the churches? After all, in many associations, pastors hold a position on the executive board. Thus, the entire association is greatly effected by who the individual churched may call as pastor.
     
  19. rbell

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    So the question becomes, "What hills are hills to die on?"

    The more hills you have (or build), the more divided, divisive, and contentious the association becomes.

    If you have no hills...no bedrock, un-compromisable principles...why have an association at all? You have nothing worth sharing.

    Most of the disagreements seem to come when folks can't agree on what constitutes "a hill to die on."

    BTW...Jesnipes' description over the fight the church had over unity made me laugh. It shouldn't have, but it did. :tongue3:
     
  20. gb93433

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    When a man is not making disciples as Jesus commanded and taught his disciples to do then he does meet the initial qualification of a leader or pastor. Best to ask him if he is making disciples first before anything else is being considered. Leadership is proven in the disciples he makes.
     

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