When was Jesus Crucified??

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Johnv, Apr 17, 2003.

  1. Johnv

    Johnv
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    I've always scratched my head over the events surrounding the day of the Last Supper and Crucifixion of Jesus. There's an interesting deviation in the way John tells the story from Matt, Mark, and Luke:

    Matthew, Mark, and Luke have the disciples preparing for the Last Supper "when they sacrificed the Passover lamb" (Mk 14:12-16), which would have been a few hours before Passover (The 14th day of Nisan on the Jewish calendar). The Last Supper then ocurrs after sunset, the start of 15 Nisan (Mk 14:17-31). Jesis dies on the cross the following day 15 Nisan at the 9th hour (Mk 15:34-41), which is 3pm.

    Meanwhile John's Gospel tells it differently. He has the Last Supper on 14 Nisan, the day "Before Passover" (Jn 13:1-17:26). He then places Jesus' Crucifixion & Death (Jn 19:17-37) on the Day of Preparation before the Sabbath (Jn 19:31), the afternoon of 14 Nisan. This is important to John because he has Jesus sacrificed at the same time the Passover Lambs are sacrificed. Thus, to John, Jesus becomes our Passover Lamb.

    Now, which of these versions is historically correct is anyone's guess. But the parallel that John makes is astounding to a person's faith!!

    (note: According to astronomical calculations, the 15th of Nisan in the Jewish lunar calendar fell on a Thursday evening/ Friday in AD 27, while it fell on a Friday evening/ Saturday in AD 30 and AD 33.)
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    See my post in this forum on the FirstFruits. This was observed on the 2nd day of Passover and would correspond to the resurrection.

    I like John's chronology and consider a Friday afternoon crucifixion fitting with it nicely.

    AD33. People thought Jesus was nearly 50, but if born 4-6 BC, that would make Him 38 or so.
     
  3. DeafPosttrib

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    Dr. Griffin,

    You say, you consider Crucifixion was on Friday.

    So, the Bible tells us, Christ risen on the first day of the week is Sunday.

    But problem is, Jesus told them. Jonah was in the whale's belly for FULL 3 days and 3 nights, so, even Christ shall be in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights.

    How can it fit with Friday and Sunday with 3 days and 3 nights??

    I believe Jonah in the whale was literal full 3 days and 3 nights. So, therefore, I believe Jesus died, and buried for full 3 days and 3 nights literal.

    The Bible does not saying Christ died on either Wednesday, or Thursday, or Friday. It is silence on the timing of the day when Christ died and risen.

    But, I KNOW CHrist died on the Passover day, and his body was buried in the evn at the beginning of Sabbath. Because Christ is our Passover.

    John 13:1 tells us, Christ prepared the supper on that night for the Passover. So, he died on that day - Passover.

    There is no prove what exactly of which day Christ died. Because the 7 names of 7 days were invented by pagan. So, no way that we can prove which day Christ died. Wait till we get in heaven, then we will know the exactly day.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  4. Terry_Herrington

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    Where does the Scripture say "FULL" days?

    My understanding is that in the Jewish mind, part of a day is the same as a full day. Therefore, for Jesus to be crucified on Friday and then rise from the dead on Sunday could be counted as three days.
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    Problem of taking a pictorial and descriptive language (Hebrew) and putting it into a definitive and stiff language (English). We lose some of the idioms and word pictures.

    Happens all the time. Feel sorry for folks coming from other nations and learning English!

    The phrase "3 days and 3 nights" is a metaphor for "a couple of days", used in Judaism to PROVE someone was dead (or some fact was valid).

    Example: Man dies. Or maybe in a coma and no breathing evident. So they entomb him and wait a few days to be SURE he is dead. After 2-3 days, decay sets in. Remember Lazarus? He'd been 3+ days and the KJV said "he stinketh"!

    So don't start asking for a FULL 3 days/nights or we will start talking exactly 72 hours - which means Jesus rose on Saturday afternoon about 3.

    It just doesn't wash. "Coupla days" - long enough to prove to everyone I'm really dead and didn't just swoon on the cross. THAT is what Jesus said.

    Pretty clear in the Hebrew. Don't force the English translation into meaning something that is not said.
     
  6. DeafPosttrib

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    Do not argue with me, argue with Matt 12:40, what Jesus was actually saying. He tels, that Jonah was in whale's stomach for 3 days and 3 nights in Jonah 1:17. I believe it was actually 3 days and 3 nights.

    Most Baptists inepreting Bible into literal. Why don't you interpreting it literal?

    day simple mean bright day, night simple mean dark night.

    God's Word telling us Jonah was in Whale's belly for 3 days ad 3 nights.

    My understnding of Jewish's calendar or day, Jews' belief that the day ends at the sunset or at 6 pm, as the 'day' begins righ after 6 pm. Our day ends at midnight, as the day begins at after midnight.

    If suppose Jesus crucify on Friday, he buried in the tomb at the evening - Matt 27:57-60 so, that mean, the first night begins with Friday dark night. Then, first day is Saturday in the bright day. Then Saturday dark night is the second night, while Christ was still in the tomb. Then, Sunday is the second day while Christ was still in the tomb. Then, Sunday dark night is the third night. Then, Monday is the third bright day. After three days and 3 nights passed, Christ resurrected - Monday night?

    I believe Christ was actually risen during dark night while Roman soldiers were guard the tomb, at the time, the rock was rolled away from the tomb, the soldiers were fear and flee - I believe in Matt 27:62-66 mentioned that the Pilate commanded to soldiers go to guard the tomb. So, they went to guard it. Till the time arrived, the tomb removed, the soldiers were scare and flee (Matt 28:4). I believe Christ must have risen from the tomb during night before Mary and her friend came to the tomb - John 20:1. John 20:1 tells us, Mary and her friend came to the tomb while it was DARK ("..when it was yet DARK") they discovered that the tomb was alread removed and they notice the body of Christ was NOT there. I ave a good reason that I believe Christ risen during dark nigh before the dawm of the morning come.

    Was Christ actually died on FRIDAY? I do not think so. Some Baptists believe Christ died on Wednesday, een few believe died on Thursday. To me.... unknown the exactly which day. Because te 7 names of 7 days were invented by Roman by follow pagan.

    Also, I do not think Christ was risen on SUNDAY.

    "Sunday" was set up by Roman Catholic because of pagan. Notice two wors - 'Sun' and 'day' go together into one name - 'Sunday'. Obivously, pagan worshipping sun as their idol god.

    The scripture did saying Mary visited Christ'stomb on the first day of the week. But, notice in King James Version - 'day' shows it is italic, means it was NOT in Greek translation. The translators of KJV added 'day'. Does it means that it proves Christ was risen on Sunday? Uncertian about the timing of Christ's risen.

    But, I KNOW Christ is ALIVE and he is now sits on the right hand of God the Father in heaven right now!!! [​IMG]

    Being debate on the timing of Christ's cruicify and resurrection is not clear prove enough. But over 500 witneses already saw Christ is alive, that is GOOD enough for me to believe Christ is alive! [​IMG]

    Have a nice happy passover day!!

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  7. Caretaker

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    A Summary of the Order of Events
    Regarding the Death, Burial and Resurrection
    of Jesus in 31 AD


    1) Jesus and His disciples ate the Passover meal on a Tuesday evening (April 24th) in the Upper Room on Mount Zion.


    2) After the Passover meal, Jesus and His disciples departed the Upper Room and walked to the Garden of Gethsemane in the Kidron Valley between the Old City and the Mount of Olives.

    3) Jesus was betrayed and arrested early Tuesday evening. His various trials lasted throughout Tuesday night and early Wednesday morning.

    4) Jesus was crucified at about 9:00 am on Wednesday morning (April 25th). At noon, darkness filled the land. At about 3:00 pm Jesus died.

    5) Jesus was buried on Wednesday about sunset.

    6) The two Marys waited until after the high Sabbath on Thursday (April 26th) to purchase the spices for the anointing of Jesus' body. They bought the spices on Friday (April 27th) and then rested again during the regular Sabbath on Saturday (April 28th) before returning to the tomb on Sunday morning (April 29th).

    7) The resurrection of Jesus occurred on Saturday evening (Sunday by Judean reckoning of time). The resurrection was discovered on Sunday morning when the women returned to the tomb.


    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  8. DeafPosttrib

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    Caretaker,

    Please PROVE me, Lord's supper was on 'Tuesday', and Christ crucified on 'Wednesday'.
     
  9. mountainrun

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    Caretaker has chosen AD 31 as the year of the crucifiction because the day of the passover is on Wednesday, allowing for a full 72 hours for Jesus to be in the grave.
    However...
    {paste from another post on this topic}
    ===========
    there is almost universal agreement that the length of Christ's ministry was 3 1/2 years long. Christ's ministry started shortly after John the Baptist. (By the way; that's a good reason to be a Baptist; John was one! ) When did John's start?

    Luk 3:1-3 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene, (2) Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. (3) And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

    Do we know when Tiberius Caesar's 15th year was? Yes. It ran from Aug. 19, A.D.28 to Aug. 18, A.D.29. Since John started sometime during that year, and Christ started sometime after him, add a 3 1/2 year ministry for Christ to that date, and what do you get? A.D. 33.
    ===========
    {when the Passover fell on a Friday}

    MR
     
  10. DeafPosttrib

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    The year might be close enough to prove. however, there is no evidence of which day Christ died, and risen.

    Although, it is not necesscary to debate trying to pove which day Chrit died and risen. The most important thing, that there were 500 witnesses saw Jesus alive. The gospel is not vain. If Christ is not risen, then our preach of the gospel is vain. Thank God, Jesus already victory over the death by resurrectn, so, we can continue carry the gospel to the world the good news to the world on Christ.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    Okay, I'll bite. IF Jesus said "3 days and3 nights" and that is what he meant, then I would expect Him to fulfill that word exactly. If He meant a "day", He didn't mean "part of a day", right?

    Died at 3 pm on whatever day you choose. Rose at 3 pm on day 3, EXACTLY 72 hours later.

    Now, what is wrong that THAT picture? [​IMG]
     
  12. swaimj

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    I heard a preacher today who took the 3 day-3 night view. He said Jesus rose at 3PM Saturday. That's the logical conclusion to your question Dr. Bob. I was sure shocked to hear someone actually propose it! :eek:
     
  13. Kiffin

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    I think there are problems with the Good Wednesday and Good Thursday views. The most evident is adding our Western way of viewing time into the Jewish way of viewing time. We of Europeon mindset view such sayings as 3 days and 3 nights as meaning 72 hours. The problem is that a 24 hour day was a foreign idea to the Jewish mindset.

    The Good Wednesday view I believe to be the weakest for it has Jesus rising on Saturday and it is clear that Christians in the New Testament referred to Sunday as the Lord's day.

    The Good Thursday view is very logical but like the Good Wednesday view depends heavily on there being a Special Sabbath on Passion week. The problem is there is not a hint of a special sabbath by the Gospel writers. It is clear from the text that this is the Saturday sabbath.

    The Jews viewed any part of a day as a day d nor were they as precise in their terminology as we are. I think we must beware trying to put a Europeon mindset when interpreting such things.

    The Good Friday view is:
    Jesus died on Friday. Buried before Sundown on Good Friday - 1 Day

    Saturday - 2 days

    Sunday - arose from the grave 3 days

    Regardless of whether you hold to Good Wednesday, Good Thursday or Good Friday the important thing is we remember He Died! He arose! He will come again! That is the most important thing. [​IMG]
     
  14. rstrats

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    Dr. Bob Griffin,

    re: “The phrase "3 days and 3 nights" is a metaphor for "a couple of days", used in Judaism...”

    I would really be interested in seeing the documentation that supports that statement. I wonder if you might identify your source.

    re: “So they entomb him and wait a few days to be SURE he is dead. After 2-3 days, decay sets in.”

    If what you say is true (Friday at 3pm to no later than Sunday at sunrise - 6 AM) then He could only have been dead for 39 hours (1.6 days) at the most. That wouldn’t be nearly long enough to have any chance of convincing the sceptics.
     
  15. Dan Todd

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    Mark 16:1. And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

    Luke 23:
     
  16. rstrats

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    Kiffin,

    re: "...it is clear that Christians in the New Testament referred to Sunday as the Lord's day."

    Book, chapter and verse, please.
     
  17. Dan Todd

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    Wednesday 6:00 PM - by the time Christ was in the grave - the Passover Sabbath had begun - buying or selling could not take place.

    Mark 16:1. And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

    Friday - the ladies bought the spices - prepared them and had to rest on the regular Sabbath -

    Luke 23:56. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

    Early in the morning on they first day of the week they went to the grave to annoint the body.

    It seems to me that any other rendering - causes the above two verses to contradict each other - an impossibility in God's Word.
     
  18. PJ

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    Well said, Kiffin ...
    PJ
     
  19. Johnv

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    After two pages of posts, no one has addressed the descrepancies between the synoptic Gospels (Mt, Mk, Lk) and John's Gospe, which I addressed in the first post in the thread? Does anyone have any opinions about that?
     
  20. Chick Daniels

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    An interesting question about this...I always like to trace an argument through church history. My suspicion is that most of church history has regarded Friday to be the day of crucifixion. Does anyone know when the Good-Thursday or Good-Wednesday views popped up in church history?

    Chick
     

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