When was the jailer regenerated (born-again)?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, May 28, 2011.

  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    When the jailer asked Paul, "What must I do to be saved?" Was he already born again (regenerated)?

    If not, why did he even seek the answer to this question considering that the natural man would never seek God?

    If so, then can you answer Charles Spurgeon's question for me:

    "If I am to preach the faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. Am I only to preach faith to those who have it? Absurd, indeed! Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then bringing him the medicine? This is preaching Christ to the righteous and not to sinners." [Sermon entitled The Warrant of Faith].
     
  2. Martin Marprelate

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    I think the mistake here is to suppose that regeneration is the event of an instant. Most of the Puritans, and also Spurgeon, believed that just as a natural birth takes 9 months from conception, so the New Birth can take a while before it is complete.

    The jailor was clearly awakened and convicted of his sin, but he had no idea of faith in Jesus Christ until Paul and Silas explained it to him.

    I don't have time to flesh this out right now, but 'll try to come back to it over the weekend.

    Steve
     
  3. Luke2427

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    This is absolutely correct.
     
  4. Winman

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    The Philipian jailer was not born again until he heard the word of God, believed it, and then received the Holy Spirit. The scriptures show this many times.

    1 Pet 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptable seed, but of incorruptable, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.

    We are born again by or through the word of God. And notice once you are born again you can never die, as it (the seed= word of God) is incorruptable, and lives and abides with us forever.

    You do not receive the Holy Spirit until you hear the word of God and believe it.

    Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Paul shows here we receive the Holy Spirit when we hear God's word and believe it.

    Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    Until the Holy Spirit dwells in you, you are unregenerate and do not belong to Christ. This reproves those who teach you are Christ's sheep before you believe. Therefore you must hear and believe the word of God while being yet unregenerate to receive the Holy Spirit. Receiving the Holy Spirit IS the new birth.

    And "life" begins at conception, not nine months later.
     
    #4 Winman, May 28, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2011
  5. savedbymercy

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    skan:

    Yes, He gave evidence of having been given spiritual life by that inquiry. Like on the day of Pentecost, those asking, this question acts 2:

    37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

    Peter knew that one of the Covenant Blessings would be the Spirit and that the Spirit would convince the world of sin. Jn 16:8-9; Zech 12:10;Acts 2:17-21;Ezk 36:26

    Paul also knew this, for He was Chosen to be a Minister of the New Testament or Covenant 2 Cor 3:

    5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

    6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

    I believe in both instances of the acts 2 scene with Peter, and with acts 16 scene with Paul and the Jailer, they perceived that those inquiring had been given Spiritual life and so they proceeded on with spiritual instruction for them.
     
  6. savedbymercy

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    win:

    Thats not so, one must be born of God to Hear the word of God, so says Jesus Jn 8:

    47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
     
  7. Winman

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    That verse is perfectly true, but it is not teaching that the unregenerate cannot hear God's word and believe. Jesus said the dead ( the unregenerate) shall hear his voice, and they (the unregenerate) that hear SHALL (future) live. Jn 5:25

    You call yourself a Calvinist. Were you first a Calvinist and this caused you to believe his words, or did you become a Calvinist because you first heard his words and believed them?

    You could not have been a Calvinist until you heard his teachings, because no one can believe what they do not know. This is why Paul asked, "and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?" (Rom 10:14)

    Paul does not imply the unregenerate do not have the ability to believe here, he implies they do. The problem is that they have not heard of Jesus. It is not a lack of ability that prevents persons from believeing on Jesus, it is a lack of knowledge. They need to HEAR the word of God before they can believe.

    This is what Jesus was saying, if you believed Calvin, you would hear Calvin's teachings, but you do not hear his words because you do not believe Calvin.

    This is why I am not a Calvinist, because I believe Calvin was in error, therefore I reject his words.

    Calvinism teaches the exact opposite of scripture, the scriptures say faith comes by hearing the word of God, Calvinism teaches you must have faith before you can hear the word of God.
     
  8. savedbymercy

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    win:

    Thats exactly what it is teaching.
     
  9. Winman

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    That verse is perfectly true, but it is not teaching that the unregenerate cannot hear God's word and believe. Jesus said the dead ( the unregenerate) shall hear his voice, and they (the unregenerate) that hear SHALL (future) live. Jn 5:25

    You call yourself a Calvinist. Were you first a Calvinist and this caused you to believe his words, or did you become a Calvinist because you first heard his words and believed them?

    You could not have been a Calvinist until you heard his words, because no one can believe what they do not know. This is why Paul asked, "and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?" (Rom 10:14)

    Paul does not imply the unregenerate do not have the ability to believe here, he implies they do. The problem is that they have not heard of Jesus. It is not a lack of ability that prevents persons from believeing on Jesus, it is a lack of knowledge. They need to HEAR the word of God before they can believe.

    Paul shows in Gal 3:2 that we receive the Holy Spirit by hearing and believeing God's word, and Romans 8:9 says
    that if the Holy Spirit does not dwell in you, then you do not belong to Christ.

    Therefore, you must first believe to belong to God. Although the Holy Spirit had not yet been given in Jn 8:47, those "of God " must have been believers. Jesus was not speaking of inability in Jn 8:47, he was speaking of willingness or unwillingness to listen to God's words.
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    win:

    Thats exactly what its teaching, if one cannot hear [spiritually] they certainly cannot believe, for everyone knows that Faith cometh by Hearing. Rom 10:17, Hearing the Word of God. Jesus says He that is of God Heareth God's word.

    Jesus says also Jn 18:37


    37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

    If one is not of the Truth, they cannot hear Christ voice in the Gospel and believe..
     
  11. Winman

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    Jesus is not speaking of inability, he is speaking of willingness. You must have first heard and believed God before you can belong to God (Rom 8:9).

    Why did Paul ask how can a person believe in him of whom they have not heard?

    If your interpretation was correct, Paul should have asked "how shall they hear when they have not believed?"

    Why do the scriptures say we received the Spirit by the hearing of faith? According to your view, we receive the ability to hear and believe by having the Spirit. You teach the exact opposite of what scripture says.
     
  12. DHK

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    Even many Calvinists, such as Spurgeon, believe that regeneration and salvation are simultaneous. That is the only Biblical position. This nine month waiting period is a misapplication of Scripture.
     
  13. savedbymercy

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    win:

    Sure He is. One cannot hear God's word unless they are of God Jn 8:47

    47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

    He gives the reason why[because they are not of God]. Nothing about not being willing, even though that is most certainly true as well. Unregenrated people are not willing to hear the Truth, because they cant, they have no spiritual desire for it, being they are spiritually dead to God, and Love darkness rather than light..
     
  14. DHK

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    You are taking the verse out of context. I think you know they can hear the word of God. Multitudes do. They hear it from their spouses who have unsaved partners. They hear it from their children and other relatives. They sit Sunday after Sunday in church listening to the gospel being preached and yet rejecting it every time they hear it. If you truly believed what you are saying then every person would be saved the first time they ever heard the gospel. But we know that doesn't happen. Did it happen with you? Did you get saved the very first time you ever heard the gospel?
     
  15. Winman

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    What I am saying is that when Jesus spoke of certain persons as being "of God", we know these persons are believers. You do not receive the Holy Spirit except by the hearing of faith (Gal 3:2), and if you do not have the Holy Spirit you do not belong to God (Rom 8:9).

    Now, there is an exception here, before Jesus ascended and was glorified the Holy Spirit was not yet given. Still, a person had to be a believer to belong to God.

    John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

    This verse also shows a person first believes before they receive the Spirit and perfectly agrees with Gal 3:2 and Acts 19:2.

    Do you believe a person receives the indwelling Holy Spirit before they believe?
     
  16. TCGreek

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    The very moment he trust Jesus for salvation.
     
  17. jbh28

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    no
    Well, he didn't ask how to seek after God, but how to be saved. We have the story of the rich young ruler in Matthew 19 that asked how one can have eternal life, but rejected it. obviously, he was not saved nor regenerate because he didn't want to come to Christ.

    Also, we must not confuse the conviction of the Spirit and regeneration.
    All people that are regenerate(they have the spirit) are saved and all that are not regenerate(don't have the spirit) are not saved. Romans 8:9

    Salvation is all of the Lord. Faith is a gift of God which he gives at the same time are regeneration. No where in the Bible does it ever mention of a person being born again, but not saved. No where in Scripture does it mention a person having faith, but not being born again.
     
  18. Skandelon

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    JBH,

    I appreciate your answer. That is the answer I would have given back when I was a Calvinist because I didn't hold to the idea of regeneration preceding faith. I think you have far less issues than others in this regard.

    As you may deduce, the question was more geared for those of the Reformed persuasion who do put regeneration first....especially those who claim (as Luke did) that someone can be regenerated some time before coming to faith. I think Spurgeon's comments are enlightening regarding that particular point of view.
     
  19. Winman

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    This is nonsense. How do you know what the Philipian jailer desired? And because the rich ruler rejected Christ does not prove he could not have accepted Christ. False arguments.

    You got this right, because we see in the story of those men who brought a woman caught in adultery in order to accuse Jesus, that they were convicted by his words and their own conscience.

    John 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

    So obviously unregenerate men are not totally disabled and can react to God's word.

    This is correct, but Galatians 3:2 tells us the Spirit is received by the hearing of faith. Therefore you must first believe before you can receive the Spirit and be regenerated.

    Faith is of the Lord in the sense that God's word enables faith. Men have the ability to believe, but they cannot believe what they do not know or have never heard of. This is why Paul asked, "how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard?" in Romans 10:14. This verse clearly implies men have the ability to believe, what they lack is the knowledge of Christ. That knowledge of Christ is the revelation of Jesus through God's word and preachers who go forth, enabling men to believe in Christ.
     
    #19 Winman, May 28, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2011
  20. savedbymercy

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    win:

    There is no way around it, you either believe Jesus or you do not. Jesus said Jn 8:

    47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

    This simply means he that is not of God, does not hear God's words.. Out of God, the word ek is used in the greek meaning out from God or out of God. How is one Born out of God and what does that mean ?

    First it means to be born of God the way its stated here as well Jn 1:13


    13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    This is speaking of the New Birth, of the Spirit, thats being born of God.Jn 3:3

    It also means being born out of the incorruptible seed, the word of God 1 Pet 1:23

    23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    This New Birth out of God is out of an seed, an incorruptible seed, the Word of God.

    Jesus, who is the Word or Logos of God, had a seed Isa 53:10

    10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

    To hear the word of God, one must be born of the Spirit out of a Spiritual seed.

    If this birth has not taken place first, none can hear the word of God, spiritually, sure they may hear it with an physical ear, but that does not mean anything, except it increases their accountability for rejecting it.

    Now if you do not accept this Truth, you are not rejecting me, but God's Truth, and there is really nothing else for me to say to you about it.
     

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