When were the saved regenerated by God?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Yeshua1, Jul 22, 2014.

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  1. Yeshua1

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    From Eternity past, and can we be regenerated, and yet still not have been given new life in christ?
     
  2. convicted1

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    You tell us....please...use book, chapter, and verse....


    :type:
     
  3. convicted1

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    Still waiting...
     
  4. JamesL

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    It might help to define - exactly what is regeneration?

    In the eyes of most, regeneration boils down to a mere change of disposition, then a "glorification" at death.

    But if you get down to brass tacks, scripture does not support this "disposition" view at all.

    And glorification? THAT is scriptural regeneration. A removal of sins, whereby we are perfectly fit for heaven.

    So philosophically speaking, a disposition view of regeneration simply changes a persons will, desires, etc

    But if you're asking about what scripture calls regeneration, Protestants think that happens at death
     
  5. plain_n_simple

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    Yes, waiting for the poster
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Interesting:thumbsup:
     
  7. salzer mtn

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    We were elected in time past, 11Tim 1:9, Eph 1:4. Regenerated in time St.John 3:5,8. Then we are converted when we believe on Christ.
     
  8. convicted1

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    Best post in this thread....hands down....
     
  9. Iconoclast

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by convicted1 View Post
    You tell us....please...use book, chapter, and verse....

    Plain and simple
    Yes, waiting for the poster
     
  10. JamesL

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    Christ died for the ungodly, right? (Romans 5:6)

    and God justifies the ungodly, right? (Romans 4:5)

    Was Paul wrong ??

    If you hold to a fictitious view of "disposition" regeneration, whereby God gives a man a godly disposition to choose Christ, isn't this still a godly man being justified?
     
  11. JamesL

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    C1, Icon, P&S,

    Since you all are waiting for a response from Yeshua1, maybe one of you would like to take a stab at what I wrote in posts 4 & 10?

    I'll even add some here.

    Protestants, having come out of the RCC, also believe that we are "changed" after death, whereby we are refashioned to be made fit for heaven.

    The difference is that the RCC teaches that this change takes place in Purgatory, with saints being purged of all sin before entry into heaven is possible.

    Protestants, however, believe the change is instantaneous upon death.

    But scripture says this "change" happens while we are yet alive here on earth, and calls it regeneration. A recreation, whereby our inner man is washed, cleansed, purified, and perfected.

    Protestants, with their insistence that "born from above" is a mere change in disposition, actually deny the very substance of what it means to be born again.

    And what scripture calls born again, Protestants say we must wait til we die to have it.
     
    #11 JamesL, Jul 23, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2014
  12. The Biblicist

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    Titus 3:5 uses the term "regeneration" and speaks of it as a PAST TENSE "saved" completed act rather than a future tense expectation.

    Tit. 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    "Saved" is a past tense completed action (Aorist tense). How they were "saved" is "by" the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost".

    NOT ONE WORD ABOUT BAPTISM! Ephesians 4:24 and Colossians 3:10 further explain this very act as a creative work of God, as does Eph. 2:10 performed INTERNALLY and not an external action.

    Moreover, the body was not the object of "regeneration" here, neither in baptism or out of baptism as the same body remains unchanged.

    In Matthew 19:28 it refers to the regeneration of the NATURAL ORDER of creation that creation now groans to be "delivered from" the effects of sin (Rom. 8:18-21).

    However, it is not possible to twist the language of Titus 3:5 to refer to the body as the body has not been yet "saved" nor has it been saved "by" the manner described.
     
  13. JamesL

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    I agree 100%
    I'm not sure how you misunderstood what I wrote in that other thread.

    Titus 3:5 is the regeneration of the inner man
    Matt 19:28 is regeneration of the physical

    My only reason for comparing them us to demonstrate that just as the physical realm will be restored to a state of sinlessness when Christ returns, the inner man of a believer has been cleansed of sin as one aspect of the new creation

    A literal righteousness which exceeds that if the Pharisees. Not simply a change of disposition
     
  14. Yeshua1

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    Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
    Ezekiel 36:26 Nasb

    Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
    John 3:3 Esv

    he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
    Titus 3:5 Niv

    Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.
    John 3:36 Niv
    Seems the Bible states clearly to us that regenration/cleansing/new herats ALL happen at the same time!

    As until faith in jesus is placed, still in the same lost state/condition before God!
     
  15. The Biblicist

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    I am happy it was all a misunderstanding on my part.
     
  16. JamesL

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    Could have been that I used ambiguous wording. I try to write with clarity, but sometimes we all leave things open to interpretation. I'll try to do better in the future.
     
  17. JamesL

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    Willis, Icon, P&S....

    You guys were all waiting for an explanation, and I threw my hat in the ring.

    Anybody? C'mon. I'm growin old over here waiting for one of you fine men to address my posts concerning regeneration
     
  18. convicted1

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    Good!!! Now......


    If you could succintly answer this, why ask this in a thread?? :confused:
     
  19. Rippon

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    He delights in asking the same questions over and over again though he has had the information all along.
     
  20. convicted1

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    Regeneration is the new birth, being born from above...an act that man is passive in. John 3, Romans 9:16...
     
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