Where Have All the Shepherds Gone?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Ars, Jul 15, 2001.

  1. Ars

    Ars
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    I have noticed an overwhelming amount of importance placed upon education for pastors. Some have a doctorate, other have graduated from "prestigious" universities etc. It is as though more credence is given to men of the cloth who have had theology class after theology class. It seems there must be a "Dr." attached to a Pastor's name in order for his words to have weight. It doesn't anger me, it saddens me more than anything else.

    A Pastor is more than a Bible teacher, he is a shepherd. Shepherds do more than just feed the sheep. They tend to their flock. I think many pastors have forgotten this. They teach and preach and called it good but fail to tend to their flock. No caring, no weeping, no defending, no seeking their lost sheep.

    Pastors, how's your flock?
     
  2. Barnabas H.

    Barnabas H.
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    "Dajuid" this is a good question, but why didn't you posted this in the "pastors Forum?" [​IMG]
     
  3. Ars

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    Well, I posted it here because I felt it people other than just pastors should think about this question. Is their Pastor truly a Pastor or just a teacher? By placing it in the Pastor's Forum, it may not have been seen by all. I know I rarely, if ever, go to the Pastor's Forum.

    Dave
    (By the way, the name Dajuid is pronounced Dah-wheed. Long story. [​IMG] )
     
  4. DocCas

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    I can't speak for anyone else, but to answer your question, I am right here, and have been for the past 16 years, pastoring the same church. Now I return the question to you. Where is your shepherd?
     
  5. Ars

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    Faithfully tending his flock. :D
     
  6. Gina B

    Gina B
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    I've learned to trust no shepherd but Jesus.
    A little bitter? Maybe. Am I right? That's for you to decide.
    Gina
     
  7. SaggyWoman

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    I trust my shepherd . . . I love my shepherd. But I know God and have a one on one relationship with Him, and I can go directly to God for things. . . My shepherd is there if I need him.
     
  8. Bob Landis

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    There are a lot of pastors out there that are ravenous wolves. God warns of this in Acts 20:29. It will be that way until the end. To insult and assault every pastor because of bad apples in the ministy is just not right. There are Godly pastors out there that do their ministries as God commands. It may take you awhile to find a church with a Godly pastor, but God will lead you to one. Whether or not some of these posts were meant to be an insult to all pastors, they are just the same. They sound as if someone is pointing a finger of guilt. I just don't think it is right to generalize and point a finger at a group of people and ask them to vindicate themselves for the actions of others. This would be like the world pointing a finger at you and saying, "All Christians are racist, bigoted, hateful,homophobic,snobbish, infidels. Can you tell me why all of you are like this?" :confused:
     
  9. Ars

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    My intent was never to point fingers. However, I do not think it wrong to remind certain people of their obligations. I find myself doing the same thing regarding being a father. Am I being the kind of father that I should be? I have been fortunate enough to be pastored by two excellent Pastors. However, I have also spoken to, watched and listened to others who have shifted their focus away from their flock and onto other things.

    No one is perfect, I know that all too well, but I find no problem in asking the question of Pastor's,nor do I think it an insult . If I felt my Pastor wasn't fulfilling his role as a Pastor, I would speak to him about it. If he takes offense to it, then I question his reasoning for doing so. What about the question is so offensive. Are they so above their flock that they do not have to answer to them? Are they above reproach? I would think a Pastor would welcome this question. Either to be able to give a testimony or as a way to inwardly reflect on what they are doing. (Oddly enough, I recall one of my pastors preaching on this very topic. Though not necessarily under that title.) I don't believe it is reserved for Pastors to ask this question of themselves. We should question our Pastors.

    Brother Landis, I am sorry if you felt I was pointing fingers or trying to insult pastors. I realize that many Pastors are Godly men doing their best to tend to their flocks. However, I think from time to time the question does need to be asked by the sheep.
    Dave
     
  10. PreacherDave

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    I understood the first point that was made was that pastoral ministry is far more than being a theologian. Amen to that!
    The ministry has too often become a "profession" rather than a "vocation."
    Whether a man has a man-made education or Biblical training under the loving discipleship of his own pastor is truly irrelevant; and we shouldn't look for his goatskin to prove his worth.
    The Bible's requirements of a pastor in both Titus, Timothy and also Thessalonians include not only the knowledge of the Word & the ability to teach it, but also personal godliness, tenderness, a Christian home, self-control and so on.
    There are lots of men who know theology. Many can teach/preach in intellectual ways; far fewer men who "feed My lambs/feed My sheep" with the nurturing discipeship & friendship that attends that.
    "Words for Winners of Souls" by H. Bonar would be a great gift for the pastor in your life. If he is honest before God, it will cause him hours of prayerful thought & Biblical reflection.
    God bless.
     
  11. TurboMike

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    I think this is a two-sided coin.

    There are some Pastors that know the Bible but have lost thier zeal.

    There are some Pastors how love God and what they do, but have no education.

    Let me give two examples.

    My Pastor-I don't want to sound negative but here is the deal. He's been at the same church for 30 years. (i've been there 3) He has a doctrine in Theology and a doctrine in Philosophy. He has a bachelers in Christian teaching. He knows the the Bible, but his sermons are flat, he's usually unprepaired,(not just my opinion btw) and no one has joined our church in years...But he knows the Bible.

    I left there last year for 8 months. During that time I visited a new church. The Pastor's sermon was very elementary. What I mean by that is that it seemed all he could do was yell "Jesus loves you." which would get a "amen" out of the crowd. I asked a deacon, who i happen to work with, about his educational background. he said, "well... he doesn't have one. I think he took a Bible course last summer".

    I'm not condemning either one of these Pastors. I'm just saying there needs to be a medium. A Pastor is a teacher, speaker, mediator, etc, etc. Too much education is as bad a no education. You should be educated, but you MUST love the Lord as much and even more.
     
  12. Ars

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    I'm not sure what you mean by "no education" but let me tell you about a pastor from my old church.

    Growing up, he was what some would have called a "hellion". Although he was the son of a pastor, he rebelled hard. He grew up in the area I grew up in and was friends with my oldest brother. My Mother recalls him being a nice boy, but rather wild. Some would have called him a red neck.

    After graduating from high school, he went to work at a paper mill. He was making about $70,000 + per year. (Trust me, in the economically depressed area where he lived, this was A LOT of money.) He married a high school sweet heart and had two kids. Although he went to church, he was still living in the world.

    As he grew and matured, he became a deacon at the church. He went through the Churches Bible School and this has been his only "Biblical" Schooling. No doctorate, no college degree, nothing but a Local Baptist Church Bible School.

    Tragedy hit when his daughter had to have a liver transplant when she was a very little baby, she was quite ill and it was only by the grace of God was she healed. As with anyone, this made him think long and hard. He spent time in prayer and heard the calling. He quit his high paying job and took over the pastoring of the local church. I believe making around $20,000. Even going without money when the church was doing poorly.

    This man whom I’ve grown to respect and love has such a deep commitment to the Lord and his flock. His caring knows no bounds. However, he is not afraid to be firm and protect his flock from wolves. He knows the Bible better than anyone I’ve ever met and his sermons convict, teach and feed.

    I do not believe education is a factor in pastoring. It doesn’t matter how many titles you have before and after your name, what matters is a genuine love for God, for people and settling for nothing less than the truth.
    Dave
     
  13. TomVols

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    In all of this, let me remind us all that part of the duty of a shepherd is to feed the flock. If you don't feed, there's no flock to tend!
    I do agree with the spirit of the thesis that started this post. Pastors are not CEOs nor are they doormats. They are not just professional home visitors, nor should they be ivory tower theologians. Pastoral ministry is a complex task involving theological underpinning yet with practical mercy.
     

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