Which biblical laws must a Christian obey to be right with God?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Alcott, Apr 23, 2004.

?

Which biblical laws must a Christian obey to be right with God?

  1. The whole law—every “jot and tittle”

    29.7%
  2. None-- other than believing in Jesus Christ

    5.4%
  3. Only the “moral” laws

    2.7%
  4. Only laws stated in the New Testament

    5.4%
  5. All biblical laws except those of governing an ancient nation and OT sacrifices

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Only the Ten Commandments

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. The Ten Commandments + laws unique to operating a New Testament church

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Only the biblical laws which take our modern scientific knowledge into account

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. All New Testament laws excepting the use of miraculous gifts

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Only the New Testament epistles

    8.1%
  11. All New Testament laws with the words of Jesus taking precedence over any apparent conflict

    5.4%
  12. All New Testament laws except those specifically directed at a specific person or persons at that ti

    2.7%
  13. All laws except those that are entirely <i>ceremonial</i> for the nation of Israel

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  14. All New Testament laws + the Old Testament instructions of the poetic books (Psalms, Proverbs, Eccle

    16.2%
  15. Only the 2 commandments of “Love the Lord with your whole being” and “Love your neighbor as yourself

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  16. All biblical laws with <i>preponderance</i> by number of passages taking precedence in any apparent

    5.4%
  17. I don’t know

    18.9%
  18. None of these state my answer as I would—I will state it myself in a post in this thread

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    93
    Although it is certainly nothing new, there has recently been shown on these boards some debate as to which biblical laws a New Testament Christian is obligated to obey. This may be shown most especially in regard to the Sabbath/Lord's Day, dietary laws, and 'tithing,' but it also may appear in relation to gender roles, clothing, music, disciplining children, and other topics.

    For the purpose of this poll, "law" or "biblical law" means any command or instruction given in the Bible, or the respective portion of the Bible therein referenced.

    2 possible answers are allowed in case you wish to combine 2 of the responses to state your best answer.
     
  2. Watchman

    Watchman
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    2,706
    Likes Received:
    0
    I answered the moral laws. Could not put down New Testament laws, because they are not very thorough. Abortion, for example, is not directly mentioned in the New Testament.
    Really there are two to keep: Love the Lord with all you heart, mind and strength, Love your neighbor as yourself. If you adhere to these two, all else will fall into place.
     
  3. Abiyah

    Abiyah
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Since there are Calvinists, those who are Calvinistic, Arminians, and holiness-Arminians on this board, I wonder if you couldnot define "right with God." Do you intend:</font>
    • in order to be saved</font>
    • in order to "stay saved"</font>
    • in order to live the minimal life of a believer</font>
    • in order to maximize your life as a believer</font>
    • in order to somewhat please our God</font>
    • in order to completely please our God</font>
    • or something else?</font>
     
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Everything done must be by faith, not works, or it does not please God.
    "Must obey" is a work and not faith.
    Therefore, there is NO LAW that I "must obey" to be right with God.
     
  5. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    93
    Of those choices, I would say "in order to maximize your life as a believer"-- except that I don't think any of us literally maximizes our life. That would assume there are Christains who are absolutely pure and holy in their own lives. Possibly this could be clarified as: "giving the least reasons in our lives for the Holy Spirit to be grieved by what we do or do not do," per Ephesians 4:30.

    I am often a critic of using those imprecise and poorly defined terms, and I realize I used one there with "to be right with God."
     
  6. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,655
    Likes Received:
    189
    Amen!

    The new life in Christ is superior to any laws. When we live by and through faith in Christ, we not only surpass the demands of the old laws, but we live in a way that pleases God and renews our minds and bodies.
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    "If I keep the whole law, and break it in one point, I am guilty of all"
    (Parrowphrase ;) of James 2v10)

    The law has nothing to do with me being right with God - nothing.
     
  8. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,147
    Likes Received:
    322
    The just shall live by faith.

    HankD
     
  9. Abiyah

    Abiyah
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unfortunately, I have seen many who forget that, while "the just shall live by faith," "faith without works is dead." While works cannot save and will not "keep" one saved, those who truly believe respond to that belief by being obedient to the One in whom they have faith.
     
  10. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    93
    In that case, if the Corinthians did what Paul instructed in I Cor. 5 and threw out the man who "had his father's wife," they were wrong, since they had no more authority to condemn his actions than he had to condemn theirs?
     
  11. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    In that case, if the Corinthians did what Paul instructed in I Cor. 5 and threw out the man who "had his father's wife," they were wrong, since they had no more authority to condemn his actions than he had to condemn theirs? </font>[/QUOTE]By throwing out this church member, there is no 'condemnation' declared upon his eternal position in Christ. This is a disciplinary action which says I am not walking according to the vocation to which I have been called. By continuing in this sin there is sin in the camp, and we are (as a church) unable to go forth unto the battle.

    In putting this person out of the congregation we make a statement regarding the loss of fellowship (fall from 'grace') but cannot pretend this is a mark that forever casts them away from God. It is for the purpose of leading the person into repentance and restoring them to the fellowship of the Holy Spirit and likewise to the body.

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas
     
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    Thanks Bro Dallas, you beat me to it [​IMG] .

    Roger
     
  13. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    93
    The words I used were: "condemn his actions"

    condemn-- to declare to be resprensible, wrong or evil, usually after weighing evidence and without reservations {Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary}

    The term used was accurate.

    Do you insist his doing this action worthy of being condemned has nothing to do with his relationship with God?
     
  14. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    I simply insist that all who are saved are sinners saved by Grace alone through faith alone. I have no way aside from outward fruit of the spirit to project my opinion of their eternal position in Christ upon them.

    I can withold fellowship from any person who is not walking worthy of their Christian calling,

    Let everyone who nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity,

    However, I am not the eternal judge in these things and though if followed appropriately Grace seasons all disciplinary actions regretfully required by local bodies of believers, there is not 'guarantee' that sometimes the 'discipline' is not 'politically' motivated. Great care must be excercised in matters like these, Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit, as was each of the Apostles, thus Peter was able to rebuke Annanias and Sapphira his wife because he was able to see the motivations of their heart, then there is Simon the sorcerer as well.

    We do not have that ability. But we are able to say in brotherly love and according to proper Biblical standards, dear Brother Dallas, the body has heard this charge against you, where the investigation is able to be proved against me then the body separates me from itself, where not, then this action is not taken.

    The main point is to witness the renewal of fellowship of a professed child of God to the body after observing fruit of repentance which first renews fellowship with this person and the Holy Spirit.

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas
     
  15. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    The question is what kind of works? Works of the law, or works of service, such as teaching, evangelizing, whatever God may call a person to do to work for Him and serve Him.
     
  16. TWade

    TWade
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    0
    What does it mean to be "right with God?"
     
  17. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    An interesting statement regarding this taken from the 'Seven' Points of THE SCHLEITHEIM CONFESSION, 1527.

    From the Fifth point,
    From the Seventh Point:
    I thought this might be useful to this discussion.

    There is also a work found at:

    Eternal Security A.W. Pink

    Which in it's introduction and subsequent scope appears to refute the thought that 'good works' cannot 'hold' or 'keep' a believer saved. Pink asserts and makes a good argument that perserverance of the saints or eternal security is taught in the scripture to the comfort of both young and old believers, however, scripture never proposes it to be separated from our being created unto good works.

    an example in the work is a condemned murder, visited by a preacher, who is delighted to hear the man knew the plan of salvation and declared he had years prior to the act of murder been 'saved' and both the preacher and the murderer rejoiced in OSAS, but according to Pink, while he did not enter into the pronouncement of eternal judgement upon this man's heart, he is writing the work to refute such an erroneous teaching of OSAS.

    Very much worth the reading imho.

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]

    Links to other articles of antiquity concerning discipline:

    Discipline of the Church---1527

    [ April 26, 2004, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Frogman ]
     
  18. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    IMHO, to 'be right with God' means to have received his righteousness in Christ (Romans 1.17) and not merely to have set about to make or exhibit our own righteousness (Romans 10.3) but submitting ourselves to the righteousness of God which is Christ; we may hold diverse views of the order of this, however, it is predominantly evident by scripture alone that we are or do receive the quickening of God through the Holy Spirit while we are yet sinners (Eph. 2.1-5) and that we having received this recognize our vile nature in the presence of God's holiness and are caused to repent for our sinfulness.

    It is also my opinion, anyone who 'rejects' repentance for their sinful nature is not nor has not received this quickening. Thus, they may have been moved by a worldly sorrow, they may have even followed a prescribed 'prayer of repentance' but the evidence of Grace is first before peace in nearly all places they are found together in scripture. Why is there a need for peace if there is not turmoil in the soul [conviction]. Will the seed planted on unplowed earth be able to take root and thrive?, The earth is first broken and the seed planted beneath the hard soil.

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  19. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,147
    Likes Received:
    322
    True Donna.

    Works can be "filthy rags" unless they are motivated by the Holy Spirit through faith.
    I believe that is what Abiyah is saying as well.

    I believe she is correct in that the kingdom of God has been infiltrated with tares who have no real faith just as the Lord told us when He was here in the flesh. Unbelieving religious activity CAN be a faith substitute.

    The Judgement seat of Christ will reveal all.

    HankD
     
  20. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    HankD, how do we tell them apart from believers, it certainly can not be done by how many O.T. laws they obey.
     

Share This Page

Loading...