Which is wrong with these two statements?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by IfbReformer, May 18, 2005.

  1. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer
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    These two statements are from two different men -is there anything wrong with either of them?

    IFBReformer
     
  2. StefanM

    StefanM
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    Problem with the first one:

    Belief in Christ is the only thing required for salvation. True belief in Christ does NOT lead to a life as he described. Those whom God justifies will inevitably be glorified because they will, without exception, persevere through the power of the Holy Spirit. This perseverance does not save you. Salvation is by faith, but true faith results in perseverance. Nothing beyond faith is required because if you have true faith, everything falls into place.

    Second statement:

    The first clause seems to contradict the last clause. We do not receive eternal life as a result of our obedience and love at any point in time. Eternal life is a free gift from God through faith.
     
  3. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas
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    Not sure what you're looking for, but

    I will take a stab at this...if one "truly accepts Christ as his personal Saviour", then "how he lives afterwards" will truly be changed...
    What "more" is necessary?


    If "We cannot ‘earn’ our salvation", then how can "our obedience and love..." be "rewarded"?
     
  4. Squire Robertsson

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    This brings to mind the first time I was ever called a heretic. It was by a couple of charismatics who ran a servicemans club just outside one of the side gates at Great Lakes Naval Training Station. They said:
    Well, I put my coat on and left under my own steam. However, as I walked back to the barracks, the LORD brought two verses to my mind. Ephesians 2:8-9 If I could not do something to gain my salvation how could I do something to lose it.
     
  5. Artimaeus

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    Statement One should read: No matter how YOU PERCEIVE his life afterwards, he cannot perish.

    Statement Two: unbiblical, you cannot have it both ways.

    A = Faith in Christ
    B = Something I do
    A+B = Some combination

    The question is, how do I get to Heaven, NOT how do I get on the road to heaven. When you get to heaven and someone asks you (they probably won't), "Why are you here?" What will you answer them? "A" (with NONE of your works being part of the equation). "B" (no Christian would answer this but I included it as one possibility). "A+B" (as long as Christ is a part of the equation my works will be the determining factor))
     
  6. gb93433

    gb93433
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    1 Cor. 3:10-15, "According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire , and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
     
  7. jdcanady

    jdcanady
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    To StefanM

    (You said)
    "Belief in Christ is the only thing required for salvation."

    That is not correct. Salvation is far more than mere mental assent to facts concerning the life and work of Jesus. "Repent and believe" the gospel. Repentance is far more than feeling sorry or guilty. Literally, it is "turning" from sin and your old way of life (it is now repulsive) and turning to Jesus with faith in who He is and what He has done. You cannot be saved unless you are born again.

    If you are born again, you are truly saved. Your life has been transformed by the power of God. The natural outcome of such transformation is living our lives for Christ. That will be our new motivation, our new worldview. A true Christian has the Holy Spirit abiding in him/her, who guides and convicts of sin, and disciplines those the Father loves.

    Your question is mute because a true Christian cannot and will not live a life of continual sin. Although we do not have the ability to pronounce someone unsaved (or saved for that matter), I believe it is a fair statement that if someone has professed Christ and continues to live in sin, that person should not have any assurance of his/her salvation and we should not offer them any.

    The biggest lie out there is that if you have said some "sinners prayer" years ago, that proves you are saved. That is never the testimony of scripture. The way a person lives their life is what validates their profession of faith, not the profession itself. The transformed life is the evidence of salvation.
     
  8. Paul of Eugene

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    Yes, what is missing in the mere statement of belief is the element of repentence. "Except you repent, you shall all likewise perish".

    If you truly wish to repent and throw yourself on the mercy of God He will make you able to repent.

    But it must be at the time God visits the soul with the offer. It cannot be any ol time YOU choose. That's the other thing. No man can come unto the Father except the Father draws him.
     
  9. StefanM

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    You are not saved by repentance. You are saved by faith, but one cannot have true faith without true repentance. I do not disagree with your post, jdcanady. The sinners prayer does not mean you are saved, but true faith does.

    This is the kind of language I was intending to use:

    Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    I meant that salvation does not require anything beyond faith. I am not intending to say that repentance is not a part of the process, but that works are not.

    Even so, note the rest of my quote:
    "True belief in Christ does NOT lead to a life as he described. Those whom God justifies will inevitably be glorified because they will, without exception, persevere through the power of the Holy Spirit."
    What part of that implies that repentance has not occurred?


    I assure you: I do not advocate easy believism.
     
  10. jdcanady

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    Read the next few verses following Eph. 2:8-9: You will see that works are the natural outflow of salvation.
     
  11. StefanM

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    jdcanady...seriously...we are on the same page.

    This is not true:

    Works --> Salvation

    This is true:

    Faith --> Salvation --> Works
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Both statements are false. Both emphasize a works-salvation that is foreign to grace.

    If it is "grace + anything" it is no longer grace.
     
  13. jdcanady

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    To StefanM

    I agree we are on the same page. I would simply add the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin, and the truth of the gospel, as well as repentance being(logically) prior to faith. I suspect it is an almost instantaneous event, though I have heard of people being under conviction of sin for some time. As I said before, the changed life that salvation brings should lead to the works God has prepared for us.
     
  14. StefanM

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    I have no problem with your statement here [​IMG] .
     
  15. IfbReformer

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    Belief in Christ is not the only thing required for salvation? I have read StefanM replies about repentance so maybe you both will disagree with me.

    Yes I must turn from unbelief to belief(repentance that leads to salvation) in order to be saved. After salvation I am called on to repent of(turn from) my sins - thats the call to progressive sanctification.

    Calling people to turn from their sins in order to be saved is putting the cart before the horse. We all called to turn from our sins after we are saved, not TO GET saved.

    Repentance is a change of mind or a turning from one thing to another. The context of where repentance occurs determines the kind of repentance we are talking about.

    There is not one passage in the entire New Testament that tells unbelievers to repent of(or turn from) their sins to be saved. They all say believe or repent, and there are only two passages in New Testament that say "repent and believe"(Matthew 21:32, Mark 1:15) and even in these instances it does not say "repent of your sins and believe" - they just say "repent and believe".

    If you put the literal greek meaning in there it makes perfect sense, "repent[change your mind, turn] and believe".

    You must acknowledge(confess) your sinful state before God and believe on Jesus Christ as your God and Savior to be saved. Being saved is not about pleding to turn from this or that sin in order for God to accept you. He accepts us on the basis of Christ's perfect righteousness, not our pledge to give up certain sins.

    I do not believe in easy-prayerism(which I think is a better term than easy-believism).

    A prayer will not save you.
    A pledge to turn from particular known sins will
    not save you.
    Only belief in the heart that Jesus Christ is your God and Savior will save you.

    You may say a prayer which comes from that heart-felt belief, you may even make a pledge to turn from certain known sins at that time as well, but it is the belief that saves, nothing more, nothing less.

    IFBReformer
     
  16. IfbReformer

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    Dr. Bob,

    I started another thread on this, but just wanted to let you know one of the statements was made by a Lordship advocate and another by a Catholic Theologian.

    IFBReformer
     
  17. James_Newman

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Thats 3 thumbs up
     
  18. obscureone

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    Both original statements are wrong. Genuine faith walks hand in hand with genuine repentance. We all trust in something other than Christ before salvation. Genuine faith & repentance is a turning from what we previously trusted in to trusting in Christ alone. Remember the Thessalonians believers who turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God and to wait for His Son (1Th. 1:9-10). This is all of His grace, so He gets all the glory!
     

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