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Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by mandym, Feb 29, 2012.
Hence Obama's insane comments concerning the sourcing of "green energy" instead of finding a steady supply of oil on our own continent.
Gren energy would be awesome, except for one little problem. It does not exist in any sustainable form and there is no real move to make it so within the next 20+ years, not to mention the need to produce FOOD on the same land, which will always take precidence over fuel.
If our President presses this issue and we end up not being able to afford fuel, we will begin reverting as a nation to 2nd or even 3rd world status in short order. Energy is one of the primary drivers for 1st world nations, including the capacity for jobs, materials, food production, transportation, etc., virtually the entire infra-structure of any 1st world nation and primarily what sets them apart from the rest.
Well, I would not jump to the conclusion that the White House wants to keep gas prices high just because it is not their goal to lower prices but instead decrease our dependency on oil. That's a big step. That's like saying that we want to keep our nation fat because instead of taking away Hostess cakes, we want to decrease our dependency on sugar. It doesn't work that way.
The comparison between high gas prices and being fat fails. You have have to compare prices between Hostess cakes and Gas. High gas prices means less gas use. If they keep them high people would use gas less and the Whitehouse feels they can compel the country to turn to alternative fuel if gas prices stay high.
He told us what he thought about our energy costs during the last election.
Gas prices are way to low. I propose a $1/gal war tax o gas and diesel.
...been sipping on that special Kool-aide again? :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Sounds like he bonged the entire gallon. :smilewinkgrin:
Increasing the cost of gasoline to the consumer, as a means to limit use, has long been part of the democrat agenda.
This is no surprise.
The problem is this
Those that can't afford 4-5 dollars a gallon can't afford the 3 we're already at, so they'll keep spending and racking up debt. Either because they have to or want too, but they'll do it.
Those that can afford it won't change their lifestyles much. I know I won't. Will it inconveince me? Yep. Will I maybe make a few less trips? Yep. Will I totally revamp my life? Nope.
For this to really work, they'll have to get gas where it's 10+ bucks a gallon.
And then when gas prices start going up they think about re-election and start screaming for oil to be released from strategic reserves and taxes on oil companies "excess" profits and congressional hearings to find out who is responsible for higher gas prices.
I've been arguing about two things in this thread...
First, that Obama actually intends for fuel prices to go and stay up (his "solution" is long-term in some other form of sustainable energy that does not exist in viable form currently) and second that Wall Street has helped push the prices higher due to futures trading on speculation that oil will become unobtainium should some conflict arise in the Middle East.
Here is an article with current events that hits both points:
How does speculation raise gas prices? For a partial list of things traded as commodities see http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/ Speculators deal in every commodity. Why pick on gas prices? Which of the other commodities are speculators NOT trying to make a profit on?
Do any of you right wingnuts know what a commodity is? Why the Chicago Board Of Trade was started? For a simple answer http://www.investorwords.com/975/commodity.html
1. A physical substance, such as food, grains, and metals, which is interchangeable with another product of the same type, and which investors buy or sell, usually through futures contracts. The price of the commodity is subject to supply and demand. Risk is actually the reason exchange trading of the basic agricultural products began. For example, a farmer risks the cost of producing a product ready for market at sometime in the future because he doesn't know what the selling price will be.
2. More generally, a product which trades on a commodity exchange; this would also include foreign currencies and financial instruments and indexes.
For more detailed info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity
In economics, a commodity is the generic term for any marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs. Economic commodities comprise goods and services.
The more specific meaning of the term commodity is applied to goods only. It is used to describe a class of goods for which there is demand, but which is supplied without qualitative differentiation across a market. A commodity has full or partial fungibility; that is, the market treats it as equivalent or nearly so no matter who produces it. "From the taste of wheat it is not possible to tell who produced it, a Russian serf, a French peasant or an English capitalist." Petroleum and copper are examples of such commodities. The price of copper is universal, and fluctuates daily based on global supply and demand. Items such as stereo systems, on the other hand, have many aspects of product differentiation, such as the brand, the user interface, the perceived quality etc. And, the more valuable a stereo is perceived to be, the more it will cost.
In contrast, one of the characteristics of a commodity good is that its price is determined as a function of its market as a whole. Well-established physical commodities have actively traded spot and derivative markets. Generally, these are basic resources and agricultural products such as iron ore, crude oil, coal, salt, sugar, coffee beans, soybeans, aluminum, copper, rice, wheat, gold, silver, palladium, and platinum. Soft commodities are goods that are grown, while hard commodities are the ones that are extracted through mining.
There is another important class of energy commodities which includes electricity, gas, coal and oil. Electricity has the particular characteristic that it is usually uneconomical to store, hence, electricity must be consumed as soon as it is produced.
Commodification (also called commoditization) occurs as a goods or services market loses differentiation across its supply base, often by the diffusion of the intellectual capital necessary to acquire or produce it efficiently. As such, goods that formerly carried premium margins for market participants have become commodities, such as generic pharmaceuticals and silicon chips.
Billwald, my mentioning only gas prices does not mean that I ignore the balance of the commodity market. You are making a huge argument from my silence on other parts of what the market does.
And, yes, the futures marked DOES dictate fuel costs, and YES, the market DOES manipulate those prices to gain a profit. And, further, YES, something CAN change that market.
If the President announced that he changed his mind and was FOR the pipeline the futures market would come down immediately.
for an honest evaluation.
>The problem is this
>Those that can't afford 4-5 dollars a gallon can't afford the 3 we're already at, so they'll keep spending and racking up debt. Either because they have to or want too, but they'll do it.
They "want their cake and eat it, to" even if they can't afford bread. Around here we have VERY cheap public transportation for disabled people. Fine with me except for those who think they have a "right" to live 30 miles out of town and free taxi rides into the city to get their methadone.
>Those that can afford it won't change their lifestyles much. I know I won't. Will it inconveince me? Yep. Will I maybe make a few less trips? Yep. Will I totally revamp my life? Nope.
Same here. Anyone on BB who can't afford $4.50 gas? Are you making plans to cut your transportation costs? If not, why not?
I am making plans... I commute about 80 miles a day, currently with a Dodge 3/4 ton 4x4 truck with Cummins diesel. Normally, it doesn't make that much of an overall dent in my income, but of late I'm at close to 25% of my take home pay for fuel. The squeeze is on!
As I said above, I intend to get a motorcycle and while I have that, I'll also work some more on the truck for the winter months. Need the 4x4 in my neck of the woods (Wisconsin, close enough to Lake Michagan to see lake effect snow) and the diesel is actually much more efficent than a similar gas model. My overdrive is out right now and I'm still above 16 mpg. Once the OD is fixed I'll be close to 24. I also pick roads where I travel slower and with less miles, slightly more time spent behind the wheel every day, but I pick up a good mileage gain. At 45 mph, even without OD, I get close to 20 mpg and about 27 when OD works. Diesel torque and low gears/tall tires helps. Truck idles in high gear at about 1200 rpm at 45.
I've jacked up the pump and done some other mods on the truck to seriously increase power levels. Stock factory offering was 160 HP and 350 lb/ft torque. I've bumped that to 300 HP and 700 lb/ft torque. Next mods will raise it to 400 hp and 900 lb/ft range. In a diesel, the higher the horsepower and torque the better the economy (until you are just spraying fuel for the sake of spraying it) because of the turbo charger. My mileage has gone up with every new mod, from about 12 at stock level to the 20+ I see now when the transmission is working correctly (blew OD when a cooler line broke and I lost all the oil). I barely have to tap the throttle to have more than adequate power (and if I get on it, I can eat new Mustangs and Camaros for lunch...) :laugh:
That is the only Chrysler product I would consider if I needed a p/u. With the Allison transmission.
refutes the claim that Obama stated he wants higher gas prices.
The only way to actually refute Obama's claim is ACTION. We've already proved in his first three years that he will SAY whatever needs to be said, but his ACTIONS constantly belie his rhetoric.
What he has SAID over the past several days (and I've heard about 5 different clips of his recent speeches) is that "there is no short term solution" and after that he goes on to speak of alternative energy sources, which means that he has ABSOLUTELY no plans to do a SINGLE THING to lower fuel prices, even if he could, until the week before the election, when somehow, miracle upon miracle, he will pull out of his backside a fuel price reduction. :BangHead:
Wage and price freezes?