Who are the All Here Christ was delivered up for ?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by savedbymercy, Jun 3, 2015.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Rom 8:28-33

    #2 The All applies to all them that are called according to His Purpose !

    This Purpose is the same one of 2 Tim 1:9

    9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    And this is the Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

    11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

    Lets be real about it, Election is also mentioned in the context of Rom 8:28-34

    28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died or was delivered up for us all, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    So the Us All that Christ was delivered up for in the context of Rom 8:34 are the Elect of God Vs 33 !
     
  2. savedbymercy

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    Who are the All Here Christ was delivered up for ? 2

    Theres more in the sacred text of passage Rom 8:28-34 that specifies who are the All Christ was delivered up for ! It was not all without exception, the context cannot support such a lie, and we have seen that it pertains to all them that Loved God, and them Called according to the Purpose of Election.

    Well it also pertains to all them He in Vs 29 foreknew:

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Those He foreknew are also His People Rom 11:2

    2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

    Now we know that all people without exception are those He foreknew. Jesus says plainly to some here Matt 7:23

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    So they absolutely could not have been of those He foreknew as His People that He shall save from their sins Matt 1:21

    21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    Ok, His People here in Matt 1:21 are the same His People foreknew in Rom 11:2 which are the same foreknew in Rom 8:29 which are the same Us All in Rom 8:32 that He died for or was delivered up for !

    So if we say He was delivered up for all without exception, hence He lied when it will be said by Him in Matt 7:23 I never knew you, because He would have to had known them to have died for them !
     
  3. savedbymercy

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    Who are the All Here Christ was delivered up for ? 3

    If we stay True to the context of Rom 8:28-34

    The All Pas that Christ was delivered up for in Vs 32 was all them that He had Predestinated to be conformed to the Image of His Son !

    Now all without exception have not been Predestinated to be conformed to the Image of Christ ! Many were created Vessels of Wrath, made to be destroyed as brute beast Rom 9:22

    What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

    2 Pet 2:12

    12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

    The word made here is the greek word gennaĆ³:

    I beget (of the male), (of the female) I bring forth, give birth to.

    properly, beget (procreate a descendant), produce offspring; (passive) be born, "begotten."

    So they were born to be destroyed, to perish in their unrighteousness , as the Seed of the Serpent, his offspring !

    God never purposed that the seed of the serpent should be conformed to the Image of Christ Gen 3:14-15

    14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

    15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed[Offspring] and her seed[Offspring]; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    Jesus the Seed of the Woman was not delivered up for, did not die for, the Offspring of the Serpent who are born into this world as brute beast to be destroyed 2 Pet 2:12

    12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
     
  4. SovereignGrace

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    All that were delivered up for by Christ was the church.
     
  5. savedbymercy

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    Did you understand the OP and the points I made therein ? Care to review them back to me ?
     
  6. SovereignGrace

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    Yes. I agree with you that Christ was delivered up to die for His sheep.


    I think John 10 and 17 are pretty clear on this.
     
  7. savedbymercy

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    So who would be the Us All in Rom 8:32 that He was delivered up for?
     
  8. SovereignGrace

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    The church.
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    Agreed, so my point is when it states Christ died for all 2Cor5:15;1Tim2:6; Hebrew 2:9 its the Church being referred to! Do you agree?
     
  10. SovereignGrace

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    Yes I do. Yes.
     
  11. savedbymercy

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    Ok, then we agree on that point !
     

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