Who Are The "Thieves and Robbers" In John 10?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JoReba, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. JoReba

    JoReba
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    John Ch. 8-10 records a long day Jesus had teaching and trolling in The Temple. He trolled the Pharisees by outslickering them with The Woman Caught in Adultery, by calling Himself the "I Am," by calling YHWH His Father, and by healing on that Sabbath Day the Man Born Blind. At hand throughout the account were lots of the Pharisees, the healed man and his parents, the man's neighbors, and The Disciples. Throughout the narration, Jesus revealed much of His Divine Authority and Earthly Mission through a series of major discourses and statements which were very upsetting to the Pharisees. Jesus thoroughly was in fine form, and was steaming right along the entire time. This was a big event.

    In 10:8 Jesus says, "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers," and in vs. 10, "The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy."

    Who were the thieves and robbers to whom Jesus referred? The simplistic answer is to say, "The Pharisees." But Jesus specified the thieves and robbers were, "All that ever came before me." The Pharisees had not always been in existence. The "All" could not have included those within The Levitic Priesthood who had been faithful, The Major and Minor Prophets of The Torah, the Godly Kings of Israel and Judah, and John The Baptizer. They were not thieves and robbers, and they did not steal, kill and destroy.

    You big talkers in here who claim to exegete Scripture should step up and answer this question. Stick to the topic.

    Praise God for the clarity and relevance of Scripture.
     
  2. Mark_13

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    I'll submit its talking about demonic spiritual entities as those who would be behind pagan religions or capable of supernatural displays, or engendering man's allegiance. The thief is to be associated with the wolf mentioned by Christ only a few verses later. The Bible says the whole world is in captivity to the evil one.
     
    #2 Mark_13, Mar 3, 2012
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  3. Mark_13

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    What do you think it means?

    (Or are you going to disappear for five days and then show up and 4 in the morning again to heap abuse on everyone. Sorry for whatever problems you're going through.)
     
  4. Tom Butler

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    JoReba, please don't be so in-your-face. Your OP question is just fine, it's just the "big talkers" thing that is unnecessary.

    Here's my answer: The thieves and robbers are those who prior to Jesus claimed to be the Messiah. They were false Christs who sought to deceive.
     
  5. Mark_13

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    How do you explain 10:12 in the context of your theory?

    (John 10:12) "He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters

    Who are the hired hands that are seeing the false Messiahs and fleeing.
     
  6. Mark_13

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    I'd like to revise my comment here. I have in the past speculated it might mean something different. And this is coming completely out of left field, and I venture to guess that no one will understand or concur, most will think I went off the deep end.

    But in the past at least I have thought the thief or wolf was to be associated with human governments, most specifically the system of the beast in the end times. And I foresee such a system utilizing the ultimate man-made technology to thereby enforce a type of morality, by for example through mind-reading and mind control, continual automated surveillance even in people's homes, all of it controlled by computers. To this day, our government is continually rolling out new technology like this with the ostensible reason of protecting everyone, preventing evil and so forth. There is no telling what is currently being kept secret from the public at large, but will eventually be rolled out.

    But as far as being a thief, entering into people's minds and homes is what they correlates to.

    (John 10:1) "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber.

    Contrast this to Christ's approach:

    Rev 3:20) 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

    The hired hands who do not care about the sheep would be the preachers and spiritual leaders who will collaborate with the system of the beast
     
    #6 Mark_13, Mar 3, 2012
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  7. mandym

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. Amy.G

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    I cannot imagine any believer who loves the Lord talking about Him in such a manner as to accuse Him of "trolling", so yes I know the answer to the question, but I won't through my pearls before swine.
     
  9. Arbo

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    Your disingenuous, bitter attitude is evident in this sentence.

    If there was any question if this guy's trolling, this should put it to rest.
     
    #9 Arbo, Mar 3, 2012
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  10. JoReba

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    Yes, a possibility.

    But, where in Scripture is there a basis for "All those who cam before me" being Satanic Demons? Why would Jesus place Himself so directly within the same category as them having been ones who had "come?" It does not make sense.
     
  11. JoReba

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    I actually am humored by your attempted snide little remarks. Lol. What does it matter to you, or to anyone, when or at what time I post? Give an answer.

    I have a few days off work, and I can sleep in regardless of when I go to bed. I work five different jobs, and my clock gets messed with. God in His Great Mercy and Power has over the years trained my mind and body to need little sleep when necessary, even without making fatigue related mistakes, without getting grouchy, and without having that annoying "fuzzy headed" feeling the next day. It is great. [offensive language edited]

    My life now is very clear of any real problems. In fact, people come to me constantly to pay me lots of money to solve their problems. Lol. You will never know what such a thing is like, will you ... ?

    I am waiting to see if the "exegeters" in here can answer the question of this thread. I want to see if they can use James 1:5 in their efforts. I love to listen to Pastors and Teachers, with their rhetoric skill.
     
    #11 JoReba, Mar 4, 2012
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  12. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth
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    Do you have any friends?

    John
     
  13. JoReba

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    Who are these "False Christs" you speak of who came before Jesus? Were they actually thieves and robbers, or were they merely misguided and deluded aspirants? For Jesus to specifically characterize them as "stealing, killing, and destroying" is far too harsh and destructive to ascribe to mere false teachers.

    Who did they kill? What did they steal? What did they destroy? Speculation is not good enough. There is no trivia in Scripture.

    Identifying "Big Talkers" was indeed done by Jesus, and you are not appointed to decide doing so "is not necessary." There are plenty of "Big Talkers" behind pulpits and in Christian media. Or, perhaps you are saying we should ignore the "Big Talkers" ... ? I agree. Lol.
     
  14. JoReba

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    Yep. In fact, I have quite a few Godless friends. Some of them even insist I accompany them on various social and family events. Lol. I have some Christian friends also, and always have to be extra careful with their sensitivities.

    I try to tolerate the Christian ones as the best I can. They always are trying to "redeem the time," or something, with their babbling pronouncements. It is as if they are trying to do the work of The Holy Spirit the best they can. Some of them even go to foreign countries where people are more easily gullible to modern Christian ideas. Fortunately, they can only plant seeds, and then have to leave and come home before they can dump on the poor people the entire White Gospel thing.

    Lol. Trust me, I am familiar with how that goes. In the denomination where I grew up, the Missionary White Guys labored for decades with little fruit among the native people. Finally, in the 1950's Nationalism and revolt reared its head, and even the Native Church there demanded autonomy from the White Guy Missionaries. The result is that the Native Church incredibly grew and exploded under their own leadership. The numbers did not lie.

    Remember, Jesus did not need many friends. He was not that selfish. Lol. Do you?
     
  15. Mark_13

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    Fallen spiritual entities are in essence "gods". They are supernatural powerful entities that orchestrate human events, are in opposition to God, and certainly envision themselves as gods. I don't feel like hunting up all the scripture for you. The Bible at many points says there are real fallen spiritual entities behind all of the pagan religions of that era - Baal worship - all of that. When Satan appeared before Christ, he enticed Christ to fall down and worship him and Christ refused.

    FYI - this is not a "seeker" forum. You wouldn't come into someone's church and start mocking and ridiculing everyone. This isn't the public square. I still can't tell if you're presenting yourself as a believer or what.
     
  16. Van

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    Who are the thieves and robbers? I am sure there is some deep theological question being asked, but its way over my head. I look at John 10:1 and it says those who do not come into the pasture via the door with the permission of the gatekeeper, but instead climb over the fence are the thieves and robbers.

    Would that be those who nullify and distort and twist scripture and make the word of God to no effect?

    Now Jesus alters the parable slightly and says He is the door and therefore anyone who does not come through Jesus is a thief and robber among the flock. So here would by anyone who claims salvation by works, or those harming the flock with destructive doctrines.
     
  17. Tom Butler

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    I think you're on the right track. your post reminded me of a story told to me during a mission trip to Romania. Our young translator told us that when Communism fell in 1989, and Romania's dictator was killed, three deacons in her church disappeared. Turns out they were communists who had infiltrated the church. They had so deceived the members that they had been elected deacons. When Communism fell, they were sure to be found out and they fled.

    That could be a possible example of the thieves and robbers Jesus mentioned.
     
  18. Tom Butler

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    I think you're on the right track. Your post reminded me of a story told to me during a mission trip to Romania. Our young translator told us that when Communism fell in 1989, and Romania's dictator was killed, three deacons in her church disappeared. Turns out they were communists who had infiltrated the church. They had so deceived the members that they had been elected deacons. When Communism fell, they were sure to be found out and they fled.

    That could be a possible example of the thieves and robbers Jesus mentioned.
     
  19. Tom Butler

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    I think you're on the right track. Your post reminded me of a story told to me during a mission trip to Romania. Our young translator told us that when Communism fell in 1989, and Romania's dictator was killed, three deacons in her church disappeared. Turns out they were communists who had infiltrated the church. They had so deceived the members that they had been elected deacons. When Communism fell, they were sure to be found out and they fled.

    That could be a possible example of the thieves and robbers Jesus mentioned.
     

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