Who are these of Matthew 8?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. agedman

    agedman
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    Matthew 8 passage:

    "5 And when Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, imploring Him, 6 and saying, “Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, fearfully tormented.”



    7 Jesus said to him, “I will come and heal him.”



    8 But the centurion said, “Lord, I am not worthy for You to come under my roof, but just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, ‘Go!’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come!’ and he comes, and to my slave, ‘Do this!’ and he does it.”



    10 Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those who were following, “Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel. 11 I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; 12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13 And Jesus said to the centurion, “Go; it shall be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed that very moment."
    The question of this thread is:

    Why are the "sons of the kingdom" who sit to eat with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, cast into outer darkness (lake of fire)?

    Who are these lost ones who actually get to sit down to eat and then are cast out into the lake of fire?

    Is there any other Scriptures about this event that Christ states will happen?

    Why are they called the "sons of the kingdom" if they are not part of the redeemed?

    If these are not part of the "kingdom of heaven" what to what kingdom is their allegiance?
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    Because not only did they not hearken to that Prophet like unto Moses, they slew Him.

    On what basis do you define 'cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth' as the lake of fire?

    On what basis have you determined these to be unregenerate?

    Where did you get the idea these were cast into the lake of fire?

    They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; This was from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof....And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. Mt 21.41-45

    Noah foretold of it here:

    God enlarge Japheth, And let him dwell in the tents of Shem.......Gen 9:27

    Paul wrote of it here:

    But if some of the branches were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive, wast grafted in... Ro 1:17

    They are called the 'sons of the kingdom' because:

    4 who are Israelites; whose is the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
    5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Ro 9
     
    #2 kyredneck, Jul 28, 2013
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  3. Jope

    Jope
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    I think that Isaiah 60 could be telling us of the same "outer darkness" that Christ speaks of:

    NIV
    1 “Arise, shine, for your light has come,
    and the glory of the Lord rises upon you.
    2 See, darkness covers the earth
    and thick darkness is over the peoples,
    but the Lord rises upon you
    and his glory appears over you.
    3 Nations will come to your light,
    and kings to the brightness of your dawn.​

    I think that this is speaking of the millennium.

    Either that, or the "outer darkness" is speaking of Sheol/Hades (Job 10:21-22). (Or maybe even both!).

    As for the "children of the kingdom", this is speaking of the Jews.
     
    #3 Jope, Jul 28, 2013
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  4. agedman

    agedman
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    Matthew 13: 47“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind; 48and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. 49“So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
     
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    Fire is representative of God's wrath both in the temporal and eternal realms:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1940283#post1940283

    ...furnace of fire synonymous with lake of fire? I don't think so.

    How much soever she glorified herself, and waxed wanton, so much give her of torment and mourning: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall in no wise see mourning. Therefore in one day shall her plagues come, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire; for strong is the Lord God who judged her. And the kings of the earth, who committed fornication and lived wantonly with her, shall weep and wail over her, when they look upon the smoke of her burning, standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, for no man buyeth their merchandise any more; ………The merchants of these things, who were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning; saying, Woe, woe, the great city, she that was arrayed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and decked with gold and precious stone and pearl! for in an hour so great riches is made desolate. And every shipmaster, and every one that saileth any wither, and mariners, and as many as gain their living by sea, stood afar off, and cried out as they looked upon the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like the great city? And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and mourning, saying, Woe, woe, the great city, wherein all that had their ships in the sea were made rich by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. Rev 18.7-11,15-19
     
  6. agedman

    agedman
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    These are the Scriptures taken from "BibleGateway" which have links to see them in context that point to the "weeping and gnashing of teeth" as related to the "lake (furnace) of fire."

    That there are other passages that express great woe, weeping and morning, is NOT indicative that the lake (furnace) of fire is not linked directly to "weeping and gnashing of teeth." Being cast into "the outer darkness" can have no other meaning than that of the second death.


    1. Matthew 8:12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
      Matthew 8:11-13 (in Context) Matthew 8 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    2. Matthew 13:42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
      Matthew 13:41-43 (in Context) Matthew 13 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    3. Matthew 13:50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
      Matthew 13:49-51 (in Context) Matthew 13 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    4. Matthew 22:13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
      Matthew 22:12-14 (in Context) Matthew 22 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    5. Matthew 24:51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
      Matthew 24:50-51 (in Context) Matthew 24 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    6. Matthew 25:30 Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
      Matthew 25:29-31 (in Context) Matthew 25 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    7. Luke 13:28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.
      Luke 13:27-29 (in Context) Luke 13 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
     
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    Then you should be able to take this great amount of knowledge that you've amassed from Bible Gateway and answer your own questions. Outer darkness MUST equate to the lake of fire/second death/eternal punishment. Absolutely must.
     
  8. kyredneck

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    11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven: Mt 8

    5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),
    6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: Eph 2

    When's the last time that you've sit with Christ in the heavenly places?
     

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