Who is Melchizedek?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Eliyahu, Mar 12, 2006.

  1. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
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    I have been asked by my daughter about Melchizedek as she studies on Dead Sea Scrolls and found the documents about Coming of Melchizedek. I understand Melchizedek is stated in Genesis 14:18-20, Psalm 110:4, Heb 5, Heb 7:1-, and so on. Now the question is how we can define him and who he is.

    Your comments will be appreciated.
     
  2. BobRyan

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    He is recorded as the King of Salem (the ancient Jerusalem) and a "priest to the Lord" in Genesis and lived at the time of Abraham. According to Moses - Abraham paid tithe to Melchizedeck since he served as the priest of God - YHWH. Paul makes the case in Hebrews 7 that this is the lesser paying tithe to the greater.

    He also points out that Melchizedeck is a "type" of Christ since in the narrative about Melchizedek we find no reference to his tribe, family, age, or death Paul takes advantage of that to state that he holds a unique role as a earthly priest type of Christ.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. eloidalmanutha

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    Melchy is Jesus - as He said - Jhn 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.

    Let's look at the list:

    King of Salem = Sar Shalom [King/Prince of Peace]= Jesus

    Priest of the Lord [there was no priest hood until the Law was given at Mt Sinai] = High Priest, not of the order of Levi, but abideth CONTINUALLY [forever without beginning/without end per Psalm 110:4] = Jesus

    Without father or mother, without descent, without beginning, without end = Jesus

    Like unto the Son of God = Jesus [check out the OT visions of "like unto the Son of God" and the description of John in Rev]

    King of Righteousness = Jesus - there is NONE OTHER.

    Melchy gave Abraham bread and wine [covenantal = Jesus]

    Melchy was King and Priest - two separate offices - not possible unless He was Jesus
     
  4. partialrapture

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    Amen,
    Its Jesus Christ our great high priest
     
  5. Chemnitz

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    For once Bobryan and I agree on something. Melchizedek is a man who resembled Christ in the fact he was a priest despite the fact he was not of the levitical lineage.
     
  6. Ray Berrian

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    I agree with Chemnitz and Bob Ryan.

    O.T.priests came from the Tribe Of Levi always. Jesus was born of he stock and lineage of Judah.

    We are not told which tribe Melchisedek came from but we do know that Jesus comes from the line and Tribe of Judah.
     
  7. Ray Berrian

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    If the other guys theory is right that Jesus was not born first in Bethlehem, but was on earth for many years during the times of Abraham. You can see this is going down the wrong track.
     
  8. Eliyahu

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    Who was the other guy who could be the continual Priest for the Most High God, and King of Righteousness, and still liveth at the time of Hebrew Writer as we see in Heb 7:8? Did Melchizedek live once and die there? Why did David say about Melchizedek? Why does Bible say Melchizedek is superior to Abraham? Who can exist without father, without mother, without beginning, without ending? Why does Bible commend us to consider " How great this man was" Heb 7:4?
     
  9. Eliyahu

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    We can refer to Joshua 10:1,3,5 where King of Jerusalem was Adonizedek.
    Then we can look at Psalm 76:2 which says Salem is the place of tabernacle for God.

    There must be Canaanites in Jerusalem at the time of Abraham and Abraham would have not paid tithe to the Canaanites I believe. Which tribe would have been Melchizedek?
     
  10. BobRyan

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    See! I knew one of these would come around. Always good to change up sides now and then!

    Mechizedek is not "another incarnation of God the Son" as some have stated and as one denomination insists upon today.

    There is no reference to his being sinless. In fact HIS people are delivered from slavery BY Abraham!

    Abram pays tithe to God through his gift to Melchizedek - but Melchizedek attributes the victory of Abram to God - not to Himself.

    Mr. Gregory of Oxford tells us that the Arabic Catena, (which he builds much upon the authority of), gives this account of Melchizedek, That he was the son of Heraclim, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, and that his mother's name was Salathiel, the daughter of Gomer, the son of Japheth, the son of Noah.

    Christ was born of a virgin - His coming is predicted in Dan 9 487 years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. No OT author points BACK to the Messiah declaring "he already came"!!

    They point FORWARD sayhing "UNTO us a Son is given".

    The OT always points forward to the first advent of Christ!

    Christ claimed to be the great I AM even BEFORE Abraham!

    That is an argument for the eternal pre-existence of God the Son - not an argument about Mechizedek!

    In John 8:58 Christ states that Abraham was given prophetic vision to see Christ. In Gal 3:7-8 Paul says that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was "preached beforehand" to Abraham.

    Never do we find NT Bible authors claiming that Christ was contemporary with Abraham!!

    Never is there a place MORE explicit on this point than in Heb 7 WHERE if it were TRUE that God the SON IS Melchizedek - we would see this exposed clearly in the chapter where BOTH ADVENTS would have been discussed. INSTEAD of that the Heb 7 chapter makes Christ a priest "AFTER THE ORDER OF" Melchizedek. Showing clearly that these are two DIFFERENT people.

    Of Christ it is said - He is "Another priest" that arises it does not say "Mechizedek has come back again".

    If one WERE to look for the "came back again" language you could POSSIBLY argue it with Elijah and John the baptizer (which I don't recommend by the way) but you can not make the case with Melchizedek. The text does not even give you the freedom that you might have with John being Elijah!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Dave

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    I have alway's looked at Melchizedek, based on the passages cited above, as a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ on earth. Similar perhaps to the appearance of the 4th man in the fiery furnace.

    Christ is eternal. Any conjectures on the identity of the 3 visitors to Abraham's tent prior to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? The Bible says the LORD appeared to Abraham that day (Gen. 18:1). The visitors were 3 men. Possibly one of these was also a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ? I think this makes sense given the number, and also given that the same number exist in the Trinity.
     
  12. eloidalmanutha

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    then we have this from Paul about the "pre-incarnate" appearance of Christ:

    1Cr 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    and the appearances of "like unto the Son of Man" in the OT.

    of course Jesus appeared in the OT :D
     
  13. Eliyahu

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    Dave and Eloidalmanutha,

    I am quite amazed at your view and explanation, thank you for your input on this issue.

    When we think about Genesis 18-19, we should remember that the angels are not Elohim, but Malackim again. Hebrew Bible distinguish between usual angels and special Envoys of God.
    In Genesis 19 we see those 2 angels have the authority to judge Sodom and Gomorrah. I personally believe that they were Pre-Incarnate Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit.

    There are several points to study:
    1) 18:1-3 shows 3 persons, but Abraham says, " My Lord" singular. This relates to Shema in Dt 6:1-14, especially 6:4, Elohim, the only God. But we remember that God ( Elohim) embraces plural.

    2)When Jesus said, Abraham saw the day of Jesus, when was it? we can think about Gen 14, 18, 22, but my focus would be rather on Gen 18.

    3) Did Abraham recognize LORD at the time of meeting Him, when we consider Heb 13 says:

    thereby some have entertained angels unawares ( Heb 13:2)

    4) The most amazing statement is in Genesis 31:13
    The Angel said " I am God at Beth-El" which means " I am God at the House of God"

    In any case, we should remember that Jesus Christ was not sleeping for thousands of years after the Creation, but worked hard as Pre-Incarnate Deity.
    One good example is in Judges 13:18 "Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is Wonderful?
    Wonderful ( Peleh) is mentioned by Isaiah again at Isaiah 9:6. Manoah's couple confess that they would die because they saw God.

    It is very much blessing if we know how Bible testifies about Jesus Christ (John 5:39)
     
  14. Dave

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    You're more than welcome.

    I also believe this. That was my point with the Trinity. [​IMG]

    I always looked at this one as Abraham seeing the day of Jesus in the spiritual sense. He saw it from heaven. Could be referring to this, though. Interesting thought. I would only question it on the grounds of whether a pre-incarnate appearance would qualify as "the day of Jesus".

    I think Abraham did recognize that this was the Lord. Based on the way he addressed Him. The deference paid, the pleading with Him on behalf of the righteous in Sodom, etc.

    Unawares to me means maybe Lot's entertaining the 2 angels.

    I never looked at it that way. Thanks for pointing this out!

    ABSOLUTELY!

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  15. Eliyahu

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    The most terrible statement about the Special Envoy of God is found here :

    Exodus 23:21

    Beware of him, and obey his voice, Provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions:

    For MY NAME IS IN HIM

    Who can carry the name of God in himself?


    BTW, Romans 3:10 says there is none righteous, no, not one:

    Pslam 14 :3 there is none that does good, no, not one.

    But Heb 7:2-3 says Melchizedek is the King of Righteousness. What a contrast !


    If Levi priests paid the Tithe in Abraham as they were in the loins of Abraham when Abraham paid the Tithe to Melchizedek(Heb 7:9-10),

    then can we not say that
    King David, Isaiah, Elijah, Daniel, Moses, all Israelites even including Holy Mother Mary, paid the Tithe to this Melchizedek ?

    [ March 14, 2006, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Eliyahu ]
     
  16. BobRyan

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    As Christ points out in John 5:58 HE IS the YHWH of the OT - the great "I AM".

    John 1 makes this clear as it states that while we BEHOLD Christ no one has ever beheld the Father.

    There are several points in Genesis where YHWH is actually seen. We know this is God the Son - Christ.

    But that is PRE-Incarnate! That means he was NOT incarnate as a human. He was not Melchizedek! Rather He is ANOTHER priest - a heavenly one.

    "FOR IF He were on earth He would not be a priest AT ALL" Heb 8:4

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. eloidalmanutha

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    As Christ points out in John 5:58 HE IS the YHWH of the OT - the great "I AM".

    John 1 makes this clear as it states that while we BEHOLD Christ no one has ever beheld the Father.

    There are several points in Genesis where YHWH is actually seen. We know this is God the Son - Christ.

    But that is PRE-Incarnate! That means he was NOT incarnate as a human. He was not Melchizedek! Rather He is ANOTHER priest - a heavenly one.

    "FOR IF He were on earth He would not be a priest AT ALL" Heb 8:4

    In Christ,

    Bob [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]context is the high priest set in place for the sacrificial system - Jesus would not have appeared as this Hight Priest - this does not refer to Melchy.
     
  18. Eliyahu

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    Do you admit that Melchizedek lives forever?
    Son of God abideth continually (Heb 7:3), then He is a Priest forever. (7:21)

    Heb 7:2-3 Bible says He has no beginning of the days, no end of life, then conclude He abideth a priest continually, which disprove that He has a beginning but we don't know it, but proves that actually he has no beginning, no ending.

    Romans 3:10 confirms nobody is righteous. Who can be a King of Righteousness on the earth, other than Jesus Christ?

    If Melchizedek is another person, where is he gone now?

    Again I already mentioned Salem in Psalm 76:2 must be different from Jerusalem. In Jerusalem there lived Jebusites, one of the Canaanites tribes as we can see Joshua 10:1, 3, 5, 15:8

    Face of God, Right Hand of God must be distinguished from God Himself, I believe and we should avoid the Modalism.

    Who can have no ending of life, no beginning other than God?
     
  19. Chemnitz

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    I have one question if Melchizedek was the pre-incarnate Son of God why didn't Abraham give any indication he recognized him as such particularly when concidering in Gen. 18:1-3 Abraham immediately recognizes the three men approaching him as YHWH.

    Secondly, Eliyahu, you have not adequately explained why it says Melchizedek was like the son of God not he "is" the son of God. I still can't believe you are chasing this red herring when the very words used exclude your conclusions as even the remotest possibility, particularly considering when Hebrews goes on later about how they are similar because they lack levitical lineage.
     
  20. eloidalmanutha

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    Dan 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

    Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

    Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks [one] like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

    Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud [one] sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

    Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;

    Hbr 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.


    so, any guesses who this might be? ;)
     

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