Who is 'whosoever'?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Frogman, Dec 16, 2003.

  1. Frogman

    Frogman
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    "For God so loved the
    world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER
    believeth...." How do we know who the "whosoever" are? By making a
    universal gospel offering and preaching to the masses. "Whosoever" is
    used over 100 times in the NT...


    The Meaning of `Whosoever'
    in the New Testament

    by Elder John Kohler

    As they read the Old English pronoun "whosoever" in the New
    Testament, many Bible students jump to the wrongful conclusion that a
    conditional solicitation, proposition, overture, appeal, or offer is
    being made. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Old
    English word "whosoever" is not used in the New Testament in a
    prescriptive sense, but only in a descriptive sense. It is not used
    in order to give an invitation, but to make a simple, straightforward
    declaration. The meaning of this word "whosoever" is very
    simply "the one who."

    I. Some Well-Known Passages In Which The Word Whosoever Is Found

    A. John 3:14-16
    B. Acts 2:21
    C. Acts 10:43
    D. Romans 10:13
    E. Revelation 22:17

    II. Some Other Passages In Which The Word Whosoever Is Found

    A. Matthew 5:22
    B. Matthew 5:28
    C. Luke 6:47
    D. Luke 14:11
    E. Luke 16:18
    F. Luke 20:18
    G. John 4:13
    H. John 8:34
    I. John 11:26
    J. John 12:46
    K. John 16:2
    L. John 19:12
    M. Romans 2:1
    N. Romans 9:33
    O. Romans 10:11
    P. I John 2:23
    Q. I John 3:4,6,9,10,15
    R. I John 5:1,18
    S. II John 9
    T. Revelation 22:15

    See if the word "whosoever" can be interpreted to mean "the one
    who" in all of the above passages. This writer is convinced this
    word should be understood in this very way.

    ~copied~
     
  2. Yelsew

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    What the author, Elder John Kohler did not do is include the implication of the words. In every case cited, the implication is "out of ALL", as I have shown above. As you can see, I agree that the meaning is "the one who" but the implication is, "the one out of all, who". Thus it is that in John 3:16 "whosoever believeth..." means whosoever out of all, who believeth, shall have everlasting life. Therefore the call is to all, but only those who out of all do believe, shall have everlasting life. The rest shall not receive everlasting life but as stated in Revelation 20:14,15 those whose names are not found in the book of life shall be hurled into the lake of fire, the second and final death. Not because they sinned, but because they did not believe!
     
  3. Pastor Larry

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    You are harping on the wrong thing. Of course "whosoever" is "the one who." The point is what the whosoever does. There is no difference between "whosoever believes" and "all who believe." They must believe to have eternal life.

    The more important issue, and the one that Yelsew for all his posting never deals with, is "Who believes and why?"
     
  4. Yelsew

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    If you knew the answer I'd call on you! But you do not! You have no more than I...an opinion only!

    If I'm wrong, Please by all means restate your case! I promise you that I will consider what you say.
     
  5. Frogman

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  6. Me2

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    Frogman,

    read John 6 and saw two wills of the father concerning Jesus.
    Two groups of Whosoever...

    Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

    Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    everyone that seeth and believeth.. (the church)
    all that the father has given Jesus..(all things)

    Col 1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
    Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.

    Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


    we can go on and on, but you get the idea.
    all things were made from, in, and to Christ.
    all things were given to him by the father

    Me2
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    The person who believes, do so because God grants it to them (John 6; Phil 1:29; Acts 13:48; etc.). But this is not new stuff ...
     
  8. Pastor Larry

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    You incorrectly identified that "all that the FAther has given Jesus." In context, it is very clearly referring to people, since things cannot believe. At no point in that context, does Jesus refer to things. There is not even a remote connection to Col 1.

    Another misstatement. All things were made "by" Christ, not from, in, and to Him. He is the creator of all things and he holds all things together. But that has nothing to do with this conversation. It is out of place here.
     
  9. Me2

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    another mystery?

    Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
    Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
    Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
    Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
    Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, [are] all things: to whom [be] glory for ever. Amen.

    no misstatements larry

    Me2
     
  10. Yelsew

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    The point is that Jesus, who is God with us, said, "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life".

    It matters very little what men who became believers the same way all other believers did, have to say! God said WHOSOEVER! God's implication and application is, Whosoever, out of ALL that do believe shall have everlasting life.

    Whosever can be an individual, a group, a community, or a nation of individuals, but it is never constrained to "out of my elect" or "out of those whom I choose" or out of those whom I have predestined". It always means, OUT of ALL who are able to do that which "qualifies" the hearer for inclusion! In this case, Jesus said, "whosoever believeth in Him shall have...". The qualifier is "believeth" and I know of no one who lacks the ability to believe! Do you?

    Nowhere in Jesus' discourse with Nicodemus did Jesus constrain "whosoever" to mean strictly "out of God's chosen people the Israelites", "The Father's ELECT". He could have, BUT HE DID NOT DO SO! Nowhere in His discourse did he constrain any of his comments to the Israelites, except to identify Nicodemus as a teacher of them who should know the things Jesus was saying.

    Whether or not you believe that, is of no consequence to me, because I DO BELIEVE! As long as I do believe, I already have Salvation.

    If, however, someone like you holding the beliefs that you do, could ever persuade me that I am not included, according to some false doctrine you "found" in the scriptures, and I stop believing that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, then Woe unto me, AND YOU, for I have lost my salvation. But rest assured that won't happen because your argument is weak legalism at best!

    But if you should convince an unstrengthened believer, a child in faith, to stop believing through doubt that he/she is included in that nebulous "election doctrine" of yours, then WOE unto you!

    I may fail Jesus, but I will never stop believing in Him.
     
  11. Me2

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    Yelsew,

    if one is not called of God. They are in enmity with God. not only does their carnal nature stop them from receiving the things of God. God himself has veiled their senses from understanding him even is they looked.

    salvation is strictly Gods call and his methods. we dont choose God. He chooses us in His timing.

    If the Bible says "whosoever" hears. They have already received Christs spirit "within them" and are using his spiritual ears to Hear.

    Me2
     
  12. Frogman

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    'And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;'

    Now, having experienced this, I can heartily agree, I know no one who has not had the capacity to believe. Prior to this experience (quickening) I know no one who has had the capacity nor desire to believe such things as we.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  13. Yelsew

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    Well folks you can believe as you wish, but it was not until I believed that I was quickened! I had no desire at all prior to my believing in Jesus, and I believed when I heard the Gospel message. Then, and only then did I respond to the call of God, to "come unto me all who are weary and I will give you rest".

    He did not give me rest until I heard and responded! Now I rest, assured of my salvation. I am in Christ and He is in me. Nor did he torment or nag me to come. His invitation is simple and direct. My acceptance was just as simply and direct!
     
  14. Yelsew

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    if one is not called of God. They are in enmity with God. not only does their carnal nature stop them from receiving the things of God. God himself has veiled their senses from understanding him even is they looked.

    salvation is strictly Gods call and his methods. we dont choose God. He chooses us in His timing.

    If the Bible says "whosoever" hears. They have already received Christs spirit "within them" and are using his spiritual ears to Hear.

    Me2
    </font>[/QUOTE]All mankind is at enmity with God! There is no "elect" in that! There is not even one who is "not called of God". We are all equally the creation of God, we are all equally called of God!

    We remain at enmity with God until we accept HIM to be our God! That is the single obstacle to man, accepting something outside of himself to be greater than himself. God made us that way! He gave each of us an individual spirit with an individual will. We must accept God before we will submit to God! Yes, God does things to cause us to look for Him, but He does not force us to accept Him. We must do that of ourselves or it is meaningless.

    When will you get it into your head that God has no favorites to whom he is obligated? Yes, He has a chosen race, but he is not obligated by them to service them OUTSIDE OF HIS SELF IMPOSED OBLIGATIONS! No man dictates to God! Likewise, No man is excluded by God!

    Only those who believe and accept God become his "elect", that is, those whom HE alone will save from the second death, which he does on the basis of FAITH ALONE!
     
  15. Frogman

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    There was nothing for you to believe before you were quickened. Being quickened is a combination of words one meaning 'beast' or 'animal' and the other made alive. So, prior to your quickening you were as a brute beast amd Spiritually dead.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  16. Yelsew

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    I BEG YOUR PARDON! I was not a brute or beast! I was MAN, made in the image of God! I am a spirit living in a body of flesh! Albeit, before I believed, my spirit was darkened to the things of God, but His Word which is "a lamp unto my feet a light unto my path", shone brightly, and led me directly to JESUS, whom I accepted to be what scriptures say he is, the Savior of the world. Meaning the only salvation for men in the world.

    Upon accepting Jesus, the Holy Spirit made me alive (quickened me) to the things of God. I panteth after God, seeking the living water, basking in His radience.

    I am under His wing! Alive in Christ! My human spirit did not die, lest my physical body die also, but it is no longer darkened as at first. I constrain myself to be obedient to the things of God just as He instructs me to be. He does not make me obedient, but he does instruct me to be, therefore because I love Him, I am!
     

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