Who really will be saved is quite nicely hidden in Scripture!

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    God hid various spiritual truths in Scripture because He knew they would really trouble
    some people. He desired that they keep a positive attitude and not lose hope of heaven,
    which would also make them better citizens of the world!
    Re: conflicting doctrines in Scripture … God has not lied to us, tried to deceive us, etc.
    But He has phrased His words so ingeniously, one almost has to be a “word meister” to
    unravel what is really being said, which is impossible without the help of the Holy Spirit.

    Concerning who will attain salvation, I have a few things for you to consider …


    God gives His free gift of grace-faith to some, causing them to become believers
    “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
    it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)
    But, please understand that a gift can be thrown away, rejected, or even destroyed.
    A person can choose to ignore God’s gift, return to habitual sin, fall from grace, etc.


    God’s grace is NOT promised to last forever
    “You have become estranged from Christ … you have fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4)
    “… looking carefully lest anyone fall short of (reject) the grace of God” (Hebrews 12:15)
    God’s grace can be rejected, removed, etc. … so therefore it can be received in vain.
    “We then, as workers together with Him, also plead with you
    to not receive the grace of God in vain.” (2 Corinthians 6:1)

    Remember, Jesus warned believers to first count the cost of being His disciples,
    and the way which leads to eternal life is narrow and difficult, and few find it.
    This was never intended to be a casual walk in the park ... it sure wasn't for Jesus!


    It appears that born-again Christians are promised everything
    But, such verses apply only to God’s especially-chosen “elect”, described here …
    “For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
    … whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified;
    and whom He justified, these He also glorified.” (Romans 8:28-30)
    Please note that Paul was writing only to the “faithful” saints in Ephesus.
    The Key is … no one knows for sure WHO these “elect” really are!
    But, we are very sure that the “elect” will be cleaned up, i.e. made ready for heaven.
    God’s elect will co-operate with being conformed into the image of God’s Son.


    How God’s elect are transformed from sinners into holiness
    Through co-operating with God’s sanctification process, God’s “elect” learn obedience
    leading to righteousness, leading to holiness, which leads to eternal life (Romans 6).
    They are to be slaves of God, of obedience, of righteousness, which produces holiness!


    A starting place for who God’s elect really are
    “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God,
    and (know) Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:3)
    “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
    And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish” (John 10:27-28)
    “For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” (Romans 8:14)

    God’s elect choose wisely as to whose slaves they will be
    “we should no longer be slaves of sin … Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal
    body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments
    of unrighteousness to sin … to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
    OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … For the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:6-23)

    God’s elect choose to be slaves of obedience
    “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15)
    “But if you want to enter into (eternal) life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)
    “He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him” (Hebrews 5:9)
    “Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.” (1 John 2:3)
    “present yourselves slaves … of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16)
    “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to
    the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.” (Revelation 22:14)

    God’s elect choose to be slaves of righteousness
    “present yourselves to God … as instruments of righteousness to God.” (Romans 6:13)
    “present your members as slaves of righteousness …” (Romans 6:19)
    “Do not be deceived … Awake to righteousness, and do not sin;
    for some do not have the knowledge (of this truth) of God.” (1 Corinthians 15:33-34)

    God’s elect choose to live holy lives
    “Pursue … holiness, without which no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14)
    “present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness” (Romans 6:19)
    “slaves of God … holiness, and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22)
    “let us cleanse ourselves … perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1)
    “but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
    because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” (1 Peter 1:15-16)
    “present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God,
    which is your reasonable service.” (Romans 12:1)
    “to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight --
    if indeed you continue in the faith …” (Colossians 1:22)

    God’s elect choose to be overcomers
    “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will NOT blot out his
    name from the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father” (Rev 3:5)
    “He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” (Revelation 2:11)
    Overcome by … overcoming Satan and your flesh, and their influence on you to sin.
    “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
    as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (Revelation 3:21)
    Note: Jesus did not overcome by believing that He is the Son of God re: 1 John 5:5.

    Romans 6
    slaves of God + slaves of obedience + slaves of righteousness > holiness > eternal life

    But, God knows the heart …
    surely it’s in the sincere trying and repenting, and not so much in being perfect.

    .
     
  2. steaver

    steaver
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    I believe the very title of this thread reveals a frustration within your soul. God has made salvation very understandable for especially the least of us. Not many wise though will grasp it, for they allow themselves to be caught up in what they see as contradictions in the bible and even the very thought of having a God Lord over them.

    Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved!

    How much easier could God have made it??
     
  3. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    Aaaah, but thou hast no idea what "believe" really entails!

    News Flash! ... To fit the rest of the NT,
    it must mean a lot more than you think, or are willing to admit to.

    Let's go kindergarden-style ... just try comparing John 3:16 with John 10:27-8.
    Both talk of eternal life, but they're miles apart ... kinda like you and I.
    Yup, I'd say your 3:16 is lacking something ... no, actually a whole lot of somethings!

    Either that, or you a-gonna have to proclaim that Paul was a nut-case.
    But, go ahead ... everyone is entitled to his opinion.

    This is very similar to the guy who insists that Jesus is not God, only the Son of God.
    He must proclaim that the Scriptures have been drastically altered.
    And he is invited to ... everyone is entitled to his opinion.

    Have I lost you yet, or are you still there?

    .
     
    #3 evangelist-7, Aug 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2013
  4. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    2 Thessalonians 2:13
    God hath from the beginning chosen you (i.e. the elect) to salvation
    through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth


    I will wager that the underlined in the Greek means to be continued until death!

    The elect are described in Romans 8:28-30.
    These elect are the only ones going to heaven (and the demands on them are great).

    They were elected before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4, etc.).
    [Paul was writing to the saints in Ephesus who actually were "faithful"].

    God foresaw WHO would carry that precious ball of grace-faith-salvation across the goal-line into heaven.

    Yes, He actually saw these elect co-operating with God's Spirit to be fully sanctified unto holiness.

    Romans 6
    slaves of God + slaves of obedience + slaves of righteousness --->>> holiness --->>> eternal life


    Understanding Romans 6 ...
    As usual, Paul is speaking out of both sides of his mouth (edifications & warnings/commands),
    for example:
    “you became slaves of righteousness” (Rom 6:18), i.e. they were given the ability to be (through God's Spirit)
    “so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness” (Rom 6:19)


    To summarize Romans 6 ... You ARE, so you'd better BE, or else ... you will suffer eternal death!
    Oh yes, the eternal death part is in 6:16 and 6:21 ... and almost forgot 6:23.

    .
     
    #4 evangelist-7, Aug 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2013
  5. steaver

    steaver
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    "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:" (Eph2)

    Care to explain for us how your model of salvation by self cooperation with God coincides with God's model of grace through faith that is "not of yourselves"?
     
  6. steaver

    steaver
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    You are incorrect. These two scriptures are not miles apart but rather one in the same. Those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are His sheep and they follow Him.

    I believe you might be confusing justification with sanctification when you preach a person must do this and do that to be saved. Justification is all through faith alone in Jesus Christ, it is a Gift apart from performance. Sanctification can look pretty ugly sometimes within a true believers life. Careful not to self righteously condemn one of God's true children and one of your own true brothers or sisters in the faith just because they are being rebellious at a time here and there. Be an encourager to them, not a condemner.
     
  7. evangelist-7

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    It has been explained here numerous times that ...
    God's free gift of grace-faith-salvation is given @ the start of a believer's life.

    Now, let's be a good little boy, and NOT go the way of the Yeshua1,
    who continually asks the same qvestions over and over and over and over ... again!

    .
     
  8. steaver

    steaver
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    Since you say understand this, then there should be no reason for you not to understand sanctification can in no part nullify grace-faith-salvation, but rather is a process by which God brings to perfection those who have been given God's free gift of grace-faith-salvation.

    1Thess5:23-24...

    "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do [it]."

    1 Cor 1:4,8...

    "I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; Who shall also confirm you unto the end, [that ye may be] blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
     
  9. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    Seems like I need to post another thread explaining that your fav verses
    only apply to God's elect, who co-operate with being fully sanctified unto holiness.

    .
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    You are a modern day pharisee my friend, you err because you do NOT know the heart of the true Gospel, nor the grace and goodness of God!
     

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