Who / what is the soul?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by percho, May 30, 2016.

  1. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,888
    Likes Received:
    37
    Would the soul that became living soul when God breathed the spirit of life into that which he had formed from the dust of the ground be:

    The cumulative knowledge gathered through the five senses plus the cumulative knowledge about you, gathered by others through the five senses from your birth until your death? Did the flesh and blood Adam the moment spirit of the breath of life was breathed into his nostrils begin to accumulate data through his five senses?

    You are and was that soul, Jane, Larry, Curly, Mo, Jesus or whoever?

    The soul that sins, it shall die. And man / adam became a living soul. And of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.' Christ died for our sins.

    Was the soul Jesus, the Christ, conceived in the virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit and did she bring him forth and call him Jesus? Was the soul Jesus the Christ the Son of the living God? Did the soul Jesus die for our, not his, sins? Did the soul Jesus die, the death appointed to the living soul Adam? Was the soul Jesus resurrected from the dead? Was the soul Jesus incorruptible, quickened by the Spirit as quickening spirit?

    Spirit is life and is given by God first as temporal and then eternal? 1 Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 2 Cor 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. Rom 8:24,25 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

    What is the hope we are waiting for? And how is that hope related to? >And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature. (soul)

    Something was sold under sin and something was redeemed by the blood of the living soul Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of the living God, quickened by the spirit.
     
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,249
    Likes Received:
    118
    Hello Percho, since no-one else has addressed this, I will just answer the OP: "a" soul is a person, and most uses of this term refer to the person as a whole, rather than an immaterial aspect of man's existence. If we interpret Scripture with the understanding that "a" soul refers to an immaterial aspect of man's existence, we are going to become seriously confused.

    This is why doctrines such as Soul Sleep and Annihilation have become popular, even among those associated with what we might consider more orthodox groups.

    A passage that best illustrates the "soul" and what it means is this one...



    Acts 27:36-38

    King James Version (KJV)


    36 Then were they all of good cheer, and they also took some meat.

    37 And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls.

    38 And when they had eaten enough, they lightened the ship, and cast out the wheat into the sea.



    This is not a picture of a "ghost ship," but speaks of the persons aboard the vessel. Even to this day, when a ship goes down, they describe those lost (who perish) souls (i.e., "Eighteen souls were lost at sea.")


    Understanding that the Old Testament was primarily physical in the revelation provided, the difference in understanding statements like "The soul that sins shall die" and "My soul shall go down into the grave" between the two understandings is significant.


    God bless.
     
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,170
    Likes Received:
    1,311
    Soul: נפשׁי, (nephesh). The man himself, the self, the person, the individual.

    When used as the specific tripartite soul of man it means the will, intellect, and emotions of the man himself.
     
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,249
    Likes Received:
    118
    And I agree with this, for this is the primary meaning "soul" has, particularly in the Old Testament.

    There are times when "soul" seems to speak to an immaterial aspect, but, I view this as a given, seeing a man in totality includes that immaterial aspect of his make-up.

    The question, then, is determining its meaning in each use, as to whether we might impose the popular teaching you give you here.

    Here is one you can give me your thoughts on:


    Ezekiel 18:4

    King James Version (KJV)


    4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.



    And one more:


    Psalm 22:29

    King James Version (KJV)

    29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.




    Okay, one more, lol:


    Genesis 46:15

    King James Version (KJV)


    15 These be the sons of Leah, which she bare unto Jacob in Padanaram, with his daughter Dinah: all the souls of his sons and his daughters were thirty and three.




    The reason this came up, I believe, was due to discussion concerning resurrection and soul sleep was mentioned. Many take the meaning of soul it has taken on extra-biblically (that soul refers to an immaterial aspect of man's make-up) and apply it to key texts in the Old Testament, which is how they justify their doctrine(s), soul sleep and annihilation being two of the big ones.

    Makes for a great discussion, though, if you can get anyone to talk about it, lol.


    God bless.
     
  5. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,888
    Likes Received:
    37
    I also believe the soul is the named, person, presently living in an earthly house of tabernacle. At death the earthly house of tabernacle is subject to corruption. At the coming again of the Lord the soul will be resurrected from the dead and clothed in it's house from heaven incorruptible. The redemption of the body, incorruptible and those souls, alive at his coming will be changed into their house from heaven.
     
  6. Darrell C

    Darrell C
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,249
    Likes Received:
    118
    Agreed, but we also see this term used to refer to those who have departed from their earthly house:


    Revelation 6:9

    And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


    Revelation 20:4
    And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations



    The teaching of Paul in 2 Corinthians makes it clear that when we leave this earthly house, we have one made by God, but, he does not say we receive that simply by dying, and that when we die we are unclothed, or naked.

    We see that same concept presented here, I believe:


    Revelation 6:10-11

    King James Version (KJV)


    10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

    11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.




    I would point out that a sequence is not necessarily in view, meaning we don't have to impose the souls (persons of the slain) crying for vengeance, then they are clothed with white robes. I see this as referring to the fact that they are believers.


    Whereas we also have to take in view that the body in which we die in is the house that is raised, albeit in glorified form. So not two different bodies, but the same body at two different points in its existence. We can safely say this based on what Scripture teaches, as well as the fact that when Christ was risen He showed them the prints in His hands and the hole in His side, which implies the same body though glorified.



    Amen.

    And we see this happen at least twice.

    ;)


    God bless.
     
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,145
    Likes Received:
    207
    The nature of man is somewhat akin to the nature of God. God is a triune being and so is man. Just as there are overlapping areas between the three Persons of the Trinity and yet they are eternal distinct from one another so is the triune nature of man (spirit, soul and body). For example, The Holy Spirit is sometime called "The Spirit of Christ" because he represents Christ. Sometimes one part of the nature of man is used to represent the whole of man and yet it is still distinct from the other aspects.

    Man's nature beginning with the innermost aspect begins with the "spirit" of man which is man's capacity to relate with the spiritual world. His body is man's capacity to relate to the outer physical world through the five senses. Stuck in the middle is the soul or man's self-consciousness (intellect, will and emotions) which has access to both his spirit and body and is conscious of both the spiritual and physical world.

    The "soul" is spirit by nature, meaning it is not a physical substance. It is the battleground between indwelling law of sin in the body and the indwelling Spirit of God in the spirit. The soul can "put on" the inward or outward man and depending upon which is put on by the soul determines the character of ones life (thoughts, choices and actions = works).
     
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,145
    Likes Received:
    207
    The issue between eternal security and potential apostasy from salvation is primarily centered around passages that deal with the salvation of the "soul". The same Greek term translated "soul" is also translated "life" because the soul (intellect, will and affections) determine the manifest life (works). Our time is redeemed according who controls the soul (the indwelling Spirit of God OR the indwelling law of sin). That time or the daily life being lived under the control of indwelling sin is LOST forever. That portion of our time or daily life lived under the control of the indwelling Spirit of God is SAVED in the form of rewards.

    The loss of salvation with regard to "time" not redeemed or that portion of the manifest "life" not controlled by the Spirit are passages that are primarily used by apostasy advocates to repudiate eternal security. However, these deal with the LIFE or TIME which can be redeemed or lost without affecting the eternal destiny of the child of God as that is determined by regeneration and justification rather than progressive sanctification. It is this very truth of grace that gives rise to the objection in Romans 6:1 as no other position of grace would promote this kind of response. Paul's answer is that water baptism provides an open and obvious response because water baptism publicly identifies the believer not merely with justification based upon a righteous man's substitutionary death, but it identifies with resurrection life that indwells all who are justified by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works. It is regenerative life that works progressively according to the predetermined measure of grace that God has bestowed upon each of his children (Rom. 12:4, 7; Eph. 2:10b).
     

Share This Page

Loading...