I heard a pretty good sermon last night. I didn't agree with all of it, but that was partly his point. He said (rightly, IMO) that most of the debatable issues that separate denominations are what cause us to lose sight of the foundation upon which the church is built. He used this scripture: And this.... The message was basically that no church belongs to a pastor or denomination. Jesus said that upon this rock [that He is the son of the living God] He will build His church. The church belongs to Jesus. I would add to that message one more thing, that another foundational truth in this passage is that "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven". So it is not the cleverness or the eloquence of a preacher that delivers the Gospel, it is God Himself who reveals Jesus to people. Neither is it the cleverness, the eloquence, the wide variety of ministry programs, the featured guest speakers, etc., that grow a church. Our man-centered efforts to grow congregations and to perform outreach may increase numbers, but they do not necessarily grow the church. Our efforts are vain unless they are works of the LORD in us, not our own efforts, ideas or performance. "Unless the LORD builds it, it is built in vain." He went on to say that nothing can stop His church, if indeed what we consider to be "our" churches are built on that foundation. If we do not, and attempt to build on our own devices, then if God doesn't bless it, it probably SHOULD die out. Unless, of course, we realize our error and build upon the foundation HE has laid. I'm not a pastor, and I don't think I should be one. So this had no practical value for me. But I do see lots of churches who build on their own cleverness, multiplicity of programs, etc., and what they end up with are dying churches, or huge churches of questionable value. I guess my question is to the pastors on here -- what do you think? Do you agree with the above?