Why attack Christians?

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Ps104_33, Feb 4, 2006.

  1. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    "On January 29 six churches in the Iraqi cities of Baghdad and Kirkuk were targeted by car bombs, killing 13-year-old worshipper Fadi Raad Elias. No militants claimed to be retaliating for the pictures, nor is this the first time Iraqi churches have been bombed; [5] but the bishop of the church stated "The church blasts were a reaction to the cartoons published in European papers. But Christians are not responsible for what is published in Europe." [6]Many Assyrians in Iraq now feel like "Westerners should not give wild statements [as] everyone can attack us [in response]" and "Today I'm afraid to walk the streets, because I'm Christian." [[7]] Also on January 29, a Muslim Cleric in the Iraqi city of Mosul issued a fatwa stating, "Expel the Crusaders and infidels from the streets, schools, and institutions because they have offended the person of the prophet." [41] It has been reported that Muslim students beat up a Christian student at Mosul University in response to the fatwa on the same day.[41] On February 2, Palestinians in the West Bank handed out a leaflet signed by a Fatah militant group and Islamic Jihad stating, "Churches in Gaza could come under attack"."

    source

    Why are Muslims attacking Christians and blowing up Christian Churches when the ones drawing these CARTOONS are most likely atheists?

    While I am no fan of the Roman Catholic crucifix, I dont remember Christians going around blowing up gay bars when some homosexual stuck one in a jar of urine and called it an expression of free speech.
     
  2. Daisy

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    Why is the US attacking Iraq and blowing up Iraqi cities when it was Afghani-based terrorists who attacked us?

    Stupidity, opportunism, misplaced xenophonia (Christianity being primarily a Western religion, the religion of the invaders), religious hatred? Violent jerks looking for an excuse? I don't know.
     
  3. carpro

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    Muslims don't need any additional excuses to murder Christians beyond that they are told to do so by their murderous prophet on behalf of their murderous god.
     
  4. rsr

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    That's a pretty good start, Daisy. What makes these things maddening for an American (or European) to understand is that it displays a huge cultural chasm — a separation of civil and religious culture vs. a total integration of religion and civil life; communal responsibility vs. individual responsibility; encouragement (or at least tolerance) of independent expression vs. imposition of conformity of expression.

    It took European civilization centuries and some pretty nasty shocks — like the Thirty Years War — to decide that it would be best to stop burning heretics and slaying each other for what they believed and said, and in the last century we saw that it hadn't quite taken, witness the rise of Nazism and Stalinism.

    Unfortunately, European imperialism — and the dissemination of its cultural, economic and religious norms — has provided a focal point for Islamic and nationalist hatred.

    It's the fault of the Europeans, you know. We'd have been all right if they hadn't come along.

    Well, it probably wouldn't have. The Islamic world has legitimate grievances with the West, but focusing on those grievances allows them to ignore the homemade rot they live with. Governments in the Arab world are happy to let their people vent frustration upon outsiders — which are, to be sure, nothing more than caricatures to the mob, just as Islamic jihadists are to many of us (and it's true they sometimes make caricatures of themselves.)

    So, as to the original question: They don't see a difference. Who's going to tell them there is a difference?

    I've now exceeded my allotted word count.
     
  5. mioque

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  6. Ps104_33

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    I wish all these "moderate, peace-loving" Muslims would get as splenetic over the ends to which the terrorists have taken their faith as they do over some European secularists political cartoons.
    These drawings are mild compared to what Christians have had to take from hollywood and television. Not to mention the Jews from the Nazis. Islam could take a lesson from the tolerance of the Jews and Christians.
     
  7. rsr

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    They could indeed take a lesson, but that conflicts with their entire culture. Unless the culture changes, they won't change.

    I do hope the Europeans will stand up for liberty in this case.
     
  8. Ps104_33

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    I guess for the same reason we attacked Germany when it was Japan who attacked us 50 years ago. I remember all you liberals whining because Bush one chased Hussein out of Kuwait but didnt go into Bagdad and finish him off. Left the job unfinished. Well his son completed the task and you still whine.
     
  9. Daisy

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    You guessed wrong.

    Germany had declared war on the US December 11, 1941. Iraq, in contrast, had not declared war on the US until after we attacked it.

    That's a creative memory you have. I never "whined" about that at all. In fact, I recall that it was the hawks who complained.

    His son "completed the task"? As in "mission accomplished"? Seems to me his son created a bigger mess.
     
  10. Ps104_33

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    I think GW did the right thing. Hussein is no good and the world is better off without him. I am glad Churchill and Roosevelt didnt cave to your ilk in the 1930'3 and 40's. Where we went wrong, and I have been saying this from the very beginning, is that Islam isnt conducive to a deomocracy. We will never see a true democracy where Islam has a foothold.
    (did you say Turkey? please dont go there)
     
  11. Daisy

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    So what should we do there now? What kind of government should we impose? Or do you think we should force conversion as a condition of voting? Or simply kill all Moslems?
     
  12. Ps104_33

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    We need to keep a balance of power there and not allow dictaters like Hussein and that clown in Iran get control over all the oil. I admit it. I am after the oil. We need it at this point. We need it to keep our economy strong until we "break our addiction to foreign oil".
    You dont drive around in a horse and buggy do you Daisy? Do you heat your home with wood all winter long up there in freezin' cold New York? We showed them how to get it out of the ground, how to get rich off of it, and until we tell the greenies where to go and start drilling domestically, build more refineries so we would have some surplus in case of another disaster like Katrina, then we need to be a political force in the middle east. The only muslims I want to kill are the ones trying to kill us. They will decide what kind of government they will have because this freedom and democracy thing in Iraq is just going to be a lesson in futility. There is more freedom in communist China than there will ever be in an Islamic nation.
     
  13. Daisy

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    But it's their oil. You seem to be advocating thievery.
     
  14. elijah_lives

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    They would not have any benefit from "their" oil, if it were not for our investment and technology.
     
  15. Rocko9

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    _________________________
    Maybe and maybe not and it would still be their oil. If the U.S.A. has a lesson to learn out of all of this it would be not to set up these countries with two bit dictaters that get a little power crazy.
     
  16. Daisy

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    We wouldn't have "our" technology if we didn't use "their" mathematics (to extend a foolish argument).

    Are you saying because the West has technology it should be able to steal the oil? Or, if not outright steal, sell the oil to itself at cut-rate prices? Seems to me that that attitude is part of the gripe the Middle East has against us.
     
  17. LadyEagle

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    Who steals oil? Last time I was at the pump, I paid for it. I also pay my gas bill every month. The old OBL argument that the West is stealing Arab oil is just plain ridiculous. As far as I'm concerned, they could just keep their oil in the ground and remain poor, which is exactly what they would be since that is the ONLY thing they have that is of any value to us at all - and we have paid and continue to pay dearly for it.
     
  18. elijah_lives

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    I'm saying that if western investors had not plowed tons of western money into the use of western technology to find and develop their oilfields, they would still be desert nomads. Nationalizing oil and natural gas fields (as Venezuala has done and continues to do) IS stealing from those who originally invested in it.

    We are not stealing their oil; in fact, they are getting rich from each barrel of oil that comes out of the ground. And I don't see it as a silly argument -- wars have been fought over less.
     
  19. Daisy

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    Ps104_33 wrote,"We need to keep a balance of power there and not allow dictaters like Hussein and that clown in Iran get control over all the oil. I admit it. I am after the oil. We need it at this point. We need it to keep our economy strong until we 'break our addiction to foreign oil'".[emphasis mine]

    I was asking for clarification of that view.

    That's real good. I'm proud of you.

    It's not a totally ridiculous argument, but I thought OBL's main complaint was Western decadence contaminating Middle Eastern godliness (but I admit I gave his videos a miss). That aside, haven't you yourself made the arguement that many of these wars are about oil?
     
  20. LadyEagle

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    Yes, I have made the argument that some of these wars are about oil. But US dominating the oil does not mean we are stealing it. We pay for it dearly in blood, national treasure, and we pay the host country for the oil (BTW, I was under the impression that Iraqi oil was going to pay for the war, but I guess I had the wrong impression), and we pay for the exploration, digging, and technology to get the oil out of the ground through what we pay at the pump.
     

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