Why become Catholic?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Jul 2, 2005.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    I am asking this question with particular focus on those members here on this board that claim to have come to this board as non-Catholics but are now (after x-years) turning toward Catholicism.

    The fact is - we have not seen anything from Catholic posting or even pro-catholic non-catholic posting that has shown anything like serious Bible study EVEN when it comes to things like John 6 (Supposedly a strong point for Catholics!!).

    They flee from the details of the texts just like "life long Catholics"!!

    They all "seem" to focus on certain errors that crept into the church after the first century NT saints as well as some other "incidentals" about Catholicism with almost no regard for scripture when it comes to those points that seriously challenge Catholicism!

    I find this amazing - that a non-Catholic would jump on to that form of "any-old-trick-for-Catholicism" style of Bible study.

    This forum has got to be a good place to dig into that phenomina a little better. IF there is no strong Bible argument for going into the errors of Catholicism from the outside - then what is the attraction? Where is the "plus" for stepping into a religion so steeped in the superstitions, paganism and bloody history of the dark ages - the period of time in Europe where IT REIGNED SUPREME!??

    Where is the attraction??

    Someone please prioritize a list of the strongest and then next-strongest motivators (etc) for taking that leap into the dark caverns of man-made tradition in Catholicism.

    Purgatory? Praying to the dead? Mary sinless LIKE Christ, co-redeemer, co-mediatrix, LAteran IV "Extermination of Heretics", Historica Papal atrocities? Popes fighting EACH OTHER killing fellow Catholics?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  2. violet

    violet
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    Why would anyone in their right mind answer you when you are so patronizing?
     
  3. TP

    TP
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    Greetings,

    From what I have seen is Catholics doing a fine job of biblical rearch, but Just because YOU refuse to believe them, you say they are fleeing from the bible.

    Please do not think that because we disagree with YOU that we are fleeing from the Bible. We love the scriptures and take our study of the scriptures seriously, and pray the Holy Spirit guide us in our study. Just because our interpretation is different from yours does not mean we are anti-biblical in any way.

    peace
     
  4. TP

    TP
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    Greetings,

    I am CAtholic Because of Jesus Christ. He not only saved me from my sin, but also made me a child of God as he filled me with his divine life. I entered into that paschal mystery of his death and resurretion at my baptism, and I encounter that paschal mystery anew at every mass as I renew the covenant with Jesus christ. The Holy Spirit has Contiually convicted my Heart that the Catholic Church has the fullness of Truth.
    I look at the 2000 years of MOST holy Saints and Martyrs who witnessed to the grace of Jesus Christ with their very Lives. Pick up a book of saints and see how the Love of Christ can transform. I would encourage you to stop 'Protesting' and beging exploring. As you enter the fullness of truth you will be shocked at the totality of what Christ is offering.

    peace
     
  5. Lorelei

    Lorelei
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    Catholics can only research what the Catholic church teaches about Scripture. The church alone is allowed to interpret it. In these circumstances you can not know if your teaching is anti-Biblical because those who are teaching the anti-biblical doctrine tell you that doctrine is biblical. Since they also tell you that they are the only ones who can interpret it correctly and know for sure, you have no way of ever testing them. So you must assume they are right. That hardly constitutes "biblical" research.

    What catholics research is what church fathers said about the scriptures, and that is not the same thing.

    ~Lorelei
     
  6. Lorelei

    Lorelei
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    Pick up a history book sometime, you will find there are many who were martyred because of your church, not for it.

    ~Lorelei
     
  7. john6:63

    john6:63
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    Especially coming from someone who’s own denomination has all the hallmarks of a cult and IS considered a cult in all Protestant circles.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    This is where our Catholic "leaning" brethren geet to show their "true colors" -- and how colorful it has been!!

    I always say that given enough time and rope they will ...

    Seriously - I had hoped that the Catholic contigent had at least one substantive response in it.

    I am sure that ANY other group could EASILY have reponded "substantively" as to why they have selected their denomination.

    The "details" that were ignored in John 6 have been posted AND enumerated several times. Still NOT ONE response!!

    The OP asked for a list of top reasons/motivators for making the switch with some kind of priority given to it -- still not ONE substantive reply.

    However I do credit TP with making a serious response. But I am hoping for the response to the details - in detail.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. violet

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    You have not yet answered my question. Your continued condesending attitude when anyone posts anything with which you disagree makes it highly unlikely that anyone will give you an answer. If we believed that you were truly interested and not merely looking for another target to attack, perhaps someone would.
     
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

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    There is no reason to become a Catholic and many reasons to leave the Catholic Church as far as I can see.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  11. Living4Him

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    The main reason I came home to the Catholic Church after being in an IFB Church for 35 years.....

    THE REAL PRESENCE in the Eucharist.

    Bob, I believe the reason that people do not answer your
    could be because your objections are somewhat absurd and we have explained the position on John 6 in many different ways.

    To those who believe no explanation is necessary. To those who do not believe, no explanation is possible.

    Receiving my Lord and Savior in the Holy Eucharist is the most profound way to grow closer to my Lord. His Body & Blood strengths me both physically and spiritually.

    My love and devotion to my Savior is even deeper now that I receive Him in the Holy Eucharist.
     
  12. D28guy

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    Living4Him,

    Even though the scriptures proclaim that we recieve the Lord Jesus Christ by faith alone, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, and grow in Him in the same way?...

    "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the gospel of your salvation, in whom you also, having believed, were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarentee of our inheritance, until the redemption of the purchased possession."

    "Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who has also sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarentee"

    "...that they may all be one"...(and Praise God we are!)...as You, Father are in me, and I in You, that they may also be one in Us, that the world may know that You sent me. And the glory wich you gave me I have given them, that they might be one as We are one. I in them, and You in Me, that they may be made perfect in one, that the world may know that you have sent me, and have loved them as you have loved me."

    For it is by grace that you are saved, through faith. And that not of yourself, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them".

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  13. Sirach

    Sirach
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    Bob,

    Everytime a Catholic tries to answer it seems like they get banned. If Christians who believe different than Catholics have the truth, then we have nothing to fear from what any Catholic would post.

    I have seen numerous answers to the things you pose above on Catholic sites that have reasonable answers, we may not agree with them but they are still reasonable. We are not infallible in our interpretation of Scripture, therefore what right have we to judge them if they Holy Spirit has guided them to interpret the scriptures the way that they do?


    You will not be able win Catholics until at least you actually write what the Catholic Church really teaches. Why would one answer your questions here when they know that they'll get banned? Anyone can go to any site like Catholic.com and find out why Catholics believe what they do.

    I do not understand why you keep writing falsehoods about the Catholic Faith. The most you can say against the Catholic Church is that they have a diffrent interpretation of Scripture than you... which is what you can say about people in your own church.

    God Bless,
    Sirach
     
  14. Charles Meadows

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    As an ex-catholic my perspective is a little different.

    I never rejected Rome as a youth - I simply drifted into academic agnosticism. When I realized the nothingness of life without God I began to look.

    In the baptists churches I saw groups of people who love the Lord and come to church because of that. I saw people whose lives reflected Christ OUTSIDE of church as well as inside.

    When I began to examine things in terms of biblical Christianity I saw some significant problems with the catholic doctrines on things like Mary, papal infallibility, and the eucharist.

    That being said I think there are plenty of catholic churches which epitomize the qualities I found in the baptist churches. And I do NOT find the catholic "problems" so significant that I would consider catholicism nonChristian.

    Looking back at the RCC I appreciate the reverence of worship, the emphasis on good works, and the (often times) mature approach to biblical theology (not insisting on literal interpretation all the time). The main thing that kept me away is the veneration of Mary.

    And I agree with some of the RCC guys here - most catholic-bashing evangelicals DON'T have the facts right anyway. That never helps anything.
     
  15. TP

    TP
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    Greetings,

    You said: In these circumstances you can not know if your teaching is anti-Biblical because those who are teaching the anti-biblical doctrine tell you that doctrine is biblical.

    Response: CAtholics are taught to read scriptures. The Words are right there for them to read. They are NOT stupid. Do you think EVERY CAtholic has priest hovering over them and every time they read the bible they get slapped with a ruler?
    Catholics will sit in their living room and read/pray the bible like every other type of Christian. They are encouraged to dive into the scriptures and study them as well. I don't know what you are talking about in your discription of how catholics read the bible.

    peace
     
  16. D28guy

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    TP,

    It was said...

    And you said...

    Nobody is saying they are forbidden to read the scriptures.

    Not literally, but you...as a Catholic Priest...know full well (as we all do) that Catholics do not have the freedom to read the scriptures with a fully free and open mind, expecting God to do as He promised and guide them into all truth.

    The Catholic is under obligation to submit to the interpretations of the Catholic Church "Teaching Magesterium" regarding doctrine.

    Here it is from the Catholic Catechism:

    Link... click here

    That is a satanic view that is held by the Jehovahs Witnesses, the Mormons, David Koresh, Jim Jones, and just about every cult or "ism" I've ever known anything about. This view says that...

    "We know what the scriptures mean. We interpret it, and you must believe everything we tell you it says and means. You need us to do that for you."


    Except that every other christian is free to expect God to open their understanding to truth Himself...leading and guiding them into truth. Sound christian groups never place themselves between God and the christian as the JW', Catholics, and Mormon groups do.

    As long as they come precisely to the exact conclusions that the Magesterium of The Hierarchy tells them the scriptures mean. Thats whey the Catholic Church pushes Catechism instruction much more forcfully than the scriptures.

    I was a Catholic for the 1st 24 years of my life...8 years of parochial school education including catechism classs for all those years. I know that of which I speak.

    I believe you do.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  17. Sirach

    Sirach
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    Mike,

    A Catholic Priest is going to know what the Church teaches better than you.

    Also, you fail to think about the bible verses that the Catholic Church points out to prove the Magisterium... Read St. John 14 a few times. Christ clearly tells the Apostles that the Church will be guided by the Holy Spirit, in all truth.

    Not in some truth Mike, all truth. Do you believe Jesus? I do, and every Catholic I know does.

    In Matt, Christ Himself tells people to "tell the Church". Surely you should know these verses and must admit that they are reasonable... unless you are infallible. You fail at being a Christian when you call Catholics satanic. It shows ignorance, self righteous, judgemental mentality.

    You are not going to have a clear view of the Catholic Church by looking at snippets and taking them out of context. If you were a Catholic the first 24 years of your life, you missed a lot of what they really teach, and why.

    Again, here we go, you are arguing against something that you do not understand, until you understand it, your arguments will be pointless.


    God Bless,
    Sirach

    [ July 04, 2005, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]
     
  18. Melanie

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    I guess Bob the main reason why there are members of the RCC is because Jesus Christ insituted the church but hey lets just ignore this any any other fact that does not fit comfortably with the humanism of many churches.

    Your antipathy to the RCC is comical but terrifying at the same time.
     
  19. DHK

    DHK
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    Or otherwise put: A Catholic priest is going to know how to defend a man-made doctrine like purgatory from the Bible better me. Now that is true. It is true, because it can't be defended from the Bible. It can't be defended from the Bible because it is not taught in the Bible, but the Catholic Church teaches these damnable heresies anyway.

    John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    I have probably read John 14 more times than you can ever count. Is this the verse that you are thinking of? You need to examine it very closely. It is one of those verses that has application to the apostles only.
    Think. The Holy Spirit...shall teach you ALL things.
    He shall bring ALL things to your remembrance.
    Those things that He brings to their remembrance are the very things that He has spoken to them.

    Has Jesus spoken directly to you? If so what has he told you? Would you care to share it with us.

    The answer (the proper interpretation) is that the Holy Spirit promised the Apostles that he would bring back to their memories everything that Christ had spoken to them, so that they could write it down in the gospel records without error. In this way we have the infallible Word of God. Christ is here promising us that we will have an inspired accurate record of His Word. It was the Apostles that Christ promised the Holy Spirit would reveal ALL things that Jesus said unto them. He never promised that the Holy Spirit would reveal all the words of Christ to the Magesterium. How utterly ridiculous a thought.

    Yes I believe Jesus, do you? That is the question. I believe Jesus over the Magesterium any day.

    You are very arrogant to assume that these verses even apply to the Catholic Church. Being objective and using sources outside of the biased Catholic sources, you will find that there is a general concensus that the origin of the Catholic Church wasn't until the fourth century. Thus the church being addressed had nothing to do with the paganized Catholic Church that started in the time of Constantine, a church that never had the blessing of God.

    On the contrary, if I know D26guy right (I also was in the Catholic Church 20 years before Christ delivered me from its clutches), I was indoctrinated with both its doctrines and its history. After leaving the Catholic Church, I began to study the Bible. It was then I saw the contraditions between the Bible and the RCC; contraditions too large to be reconciled. After that I went to the area of history and saw that genuine history had been tampered with by the Catholic Church. Most history that we had been taught was Catholic revisionist history. The actual facts of the Spanish Inquistion, the reason for the Dark Ages, etc. were never given. Little detail about the slaughter of the Muslims by so-called Christians was given, except that they were "Christian" in nature. Of course no Christian would be involved in such ungodly, bloody, ruthless campaigns in slaughtering thousands of innocent people. The Muslims were one thing, but the crusades against the Godly living Albigenses?? You have got to be kidding?

    I understand perfectly how Catholics revise history to fit their own means and purposes.

    Give me one good reason why I should go to Catholic sources to prove Catholic history. Should I go to the Book of Mormon to prove all the historical innacuracies of the Book of Mormon.
    I have a good idea. Why not go to the Book of Mormon to prove that Jesus was born in Jerusalem. That is what the Book of Mormon says, therefore it must be true. I can prove it from the Book of Mormon. It doesn't matter what the other sources say, does it. As long as it is in the Book of Mormon it must be correct, right?

    That is your exact attitude to Catholic history!
    DHK

    [ July 04, 2005, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]
     
  20. DHK

    DHK
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    Is it not strange how the Catholic Church can not prove one Scripture, in fact any evidence at all, that Jesus instituted the Catholic Church. I request you withdraw that statement, unless you can back it up with valid evidence. It is a worthless claim.
    DHK
     

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