WHY did God allow His chosen people to suffer the Holocaust?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, May 5, 2012.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    ”There is absolutely no rationalistic explanation for the Holocaust except for the fact
    that it was a Divine decree … why it happened is above human comprehension –
    but it is definitely not because of punishment for sin.”
    From: http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/...e-Holocaust.htm (a Jewish website)


    This is the prevailing Jewish attitude, due to either total ignorance or denial of the simple truth.

    The truth of the situation is explained from Old Testament Scriptures below:


    Through one man (Adam) came the sin nature, and it was passed on
    “… for there is no one who does not sin …” (2 Chronicles 6:36).
    “I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.” (David, Psalm 51:5).
    “… all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags (women’s menstral cloths!)” (Isaiah 64:6).
    “… for behold, each one follows the dictates of his own evil heart ...” (Jeremiah 16:12).
    Jesus told His disciples that they were evil: “If you then, being evil …” (Luke 11:13).
    Does a totally Holy God want evil sinful souls to be with Him in Heaven for all of eternity?

    The penalty for sin is separation from God
    “But your iniquities have separated you from your God; and your sins have hidden His face from you,
    so that He will not hear.” (Isaiah 59:2).
    “For you have hidden Your face from us, and have consumed us because of our iniquities.” (Isaiah 64:7).

    Enter the beginning of God’s solution to man’s problem
    “The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above
    all the peoples on the face of the earth … Therefore know that the Lord your God, He is God,
    the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations
    with those who love Him and keep His commandments” (Deuteronomy 7:6-9).
    “Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant,
    then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people …” (Exodus 19:5).
    Their covenant with God was conditional, and would also affect their descendants.

    God gave them His Law to follow, and gave them a critical choice
    This began with The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17).
    And God promised to bless them: “… if you obey the voice of the Lord your God,
    to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in the Book of the Law
    … I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you
    life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life (by obeying),
    that both you and your descendants may live” (Deuteronomy 30:10-19).
    Their covenant with God was conditional, and would also affect their descendants.

    They repeatedly broke their covenant with God, who warned of the dire consequences
    “… and they will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
    Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them,
    and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and
    troubles shall befall them … I will heap disasters on them …” (Deuteronomy 31:16--32:23).
    Check out some of the gruesome details here: Ezekiel 5:5-17, Ezekiel 20:5-9.
    “Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you …
    because you did not obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep His statutes
    and His commandments ... And they (the curses) shall be upon you for a sign and
    a wonder, and on your descendents forever.” (Deuteronomy 28:45-46).
    Moses prophesied: “For I know that after my death you will become utterly corrupt
    … And evil will befall you in the latter days …” (Deuteronomy 31:29).
    Their covenant with God was conditional, and would also affect their descendants.

    God left them in their original state of spiritual blindness/deafness
    “Now Moses called all of Israel and said to them: ‘You have seen all that the Lord
    did before your eyes … Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive
    and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day.’ ” (Deuteronomy 29:3-4).
    “And He said, ‘Go, and tell this people: Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
    keep on seeing, but do not perceive. Make the heart of this people dull,
    and their ears heavy, and shut their eyes ...” (Isaiah 6:9-10).
    Sin >> spiritual death >> separation from God >> spiritual blindness/deafness

    God dispersed them throughout the world
    “Then the LORD will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other” (Deuteronomy 28:64).
    “… when I scatter them among the nations and disperse them throughout the countries.” (Ezekiel 12:15).

    God promised a new, and better, and more personal covenant
    “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant
    … not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers (Israel & Judah)
    … I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God,
    and they shall be My people … for they shall all know Me … For I will forgive their iniquity,
    and their sin I will remember no more.” (Jeremiah 31:31-34).
    “For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into
    your own land (1948) ... I will (future) give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you
    … I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My
    judgments and do them … you shall be My people, and I will be your God.” (Ezekiel 36:24-28).
    This has begun … with the Messianic Jews (in Israel and elsewhere).

    The New Testament confirms the truths of the Old Testament
    For example:
    Matthew 13:13-15 … Jesus is referring to Isaiah 6:9-10
    John 12:37-40 … John (v.40) is referring to Isaiah 6:9-10
    Romans 11:7-25 … Paul is referring to Isaiah 29:10, Deuteronomy 29:3-4, Psalm 69:22-23
     
  2. annsni

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    Can I ask what sin many believers committed to go through the torture of the Holocaust? These were current believers - not Jews. Corrie Ten Boom's family would be one example.
     
  3. billwald

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    IF there are two separate ways to be saved then the Jews are in Heaven. If, not, in Hell.
     
  4. evangelist-7

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    God allows all kinds of suffering in every country on earth.
    Your answer is ...
    "... for He (God) makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good,
    and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5:45)


    Almost everyone is separated from God, and is out of fellowship with Him, because of their inherited sin nature.
    I suppose you understand the reasons for this.
    Even God's specially chosen and pampered people rebelled against Him after being given all possible advantages, etc.

    God owes non-believers absolutely nothing ... and this is the point of the thread.
    Believe me, friend, hardly a soul on earth understands this, so consider yourself blessed.
    .
     
    #4 evangelist-7, May 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2012
  5. Bro. Curtis

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    An estimated 6 million European Jews were killed in the Holocaust. Here are some other WWII stats....civilian deaths.....not miltary.


    China lost an estimated 16 million.

    Gemany lost over 3 million people.

    Soviet Union - 14.6 miilion civilian deaths.

    Poland - 5.5 million civilian deaths.

    Many tiny Asian nations lost millions, Dutch West Indies lost 4 million.

    Many of these folks starved to death. Over 55 million people from all over the globe were killed in WWII. Without trying to offend anyone, I dare say God spread the suffering around, quite a bit.
     
  6. evangelist-7

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    You couldn't possibly offend me ... no matter what you say.
    But, are you saying God spread the suffering around ... because He didn't prevent it?
    (Sometimes, I wonder if people say such stuff just to see if they can get a rise out of me.)
    .
     
  7. Bro. Curtis

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    I would be a fool to try and figure out the what's or why's on how or why God chooses what he causes to happen, or does not prevent from happening. I am saying WWII was not just a Jewish genocide. You can argue if today's Jew is one of Abraham's or not. But you really can't say they suffered because God loved them, because a great many people suffered, some more than even them.
     
  8. billwald

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    Maybe because God hated them. "If that's how God treats his friends . . . ."
     
  9. evangelist-7

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    Thanks for saying that ... Now ...
    I was saying the Jews were very special ... they were God's chosen people!
    And the reason I was saying that is ... (well, see the opening Jewish quote in da OP).

    All Jews that I know of just cannot understand WHY God allowed the Holocaust.
    .
     
  10. Bro. Curtis

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    And when they do figure it out, then they can work on the Chinese genocide(s), Russian, Polish, Armenian, Cambodia.....and explain why their's is special. Seriously. Why does God allow it to happen to anybody ?

    Are you saying we need to be more offended at the Jewish genocide than others ?
     
  11. savedbymercy

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    ethnic jews are not God's Chosen People, no more than Chinese are !
     
  12. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    You are willingly ignorant of the Scriptures. They are indeed HIs elect NATION and as a NATION they will eventually be saved (Rom. 11:25-32).
     
  13. savedbymercy

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    The ethnic jews are reprobates like any other people who are not of the Election of Grace !
     
  14. Moriah

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    Romans 11:25-32 is about God not cutting the Jews off forever. All of Israel will be saved means that out of all those saved…the Jews will be among them.
    God saves Jews the same way He saves everyone else.
     
  15. 12strings

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    I actually agree with your main point here, but this sentance makes no sense: Are you saying that "All of Israel will be saved" means "SOME jews will be saved."?
     
  16. Moriah

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    The Jews who turn to Jesus will be saved. The Jews were not cut off forever.
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    The "Chosen people" of God today are jews/gentiles saved by jesus/yeshua, so not ALL the jews who died were part of that "chosen group!"

    The Lord did NOT author that evil, but allowed it for a reason, and it was used by Him to bring forth the nation of isreal!
     
  18. evangelist-7

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    Everywhere I go, people turn this simple question into a huge octopus of nonsensical comments.

    They just don't see, or understand, or believe, or admit the truth of the situation.

    If His chosen people had been obedient, etc. etc., would have God protected them from the Holocaust?
    The answer is a big YES.
    Some would have died, for sure, but a big percentage would not have.
    As Michael Savage would say: That's all.
    .
     
  19. Yeshua1

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    the chosen people todau would be jews who have accepted yeshua though, ONLY!

    And it would have still happened, as the Lord allowed it for a greater purpose...
     
  20. savedbymercy

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    The Chosen of God Today are the same as they have always been, those Whom the Father has Chosen in the Chosen one Eph 1:4

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


    Col 3:12

    Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

    Who is these Paul calls the Elect or Chosen of God ? I dare you say they are ethnic jews !
     

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