Why Do People Hate Calvinst?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Shortandy, Sep 15, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Shortandy

    Shortandy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    0
    My heart is so heavy today. I had one of those I wish I wasn't a pastor moments this morning. Got an email from a lady who said she and her family would not be coming back to my church because she had to guard her kids and keep them away from Calvinism.

    Yes I wear a Reformed jersey and play for team Calvin. I recently admitted this to a few church members who asked where I stood on the debate. It only took them 3 years to ask.

    In my integrity I have not conscientiously tried to indoctrinate people from the pulpit. I simply do my best to preach the word, being faithful to the text and pray that the people would respond accordingly.

    I share this to say that this family has been under my preaching off and on for 3 years; sometimes coming and speaking words of great encouragement to me afterwords. But now that they have learned what team I play for they are bailing out.

    My sincere question and source for frustration today is this: Why has Calvinism been so demonized? Why can't people who disagree with it get along? And to be fair...why can't some Calvinist get along with those on the other team? The perceptions that our debates and words create can be harmful.
     
  2. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    I haven't seen people "hating Calvinists"'so much as being wary of them. If I was attending a church and the pastor came out as a five point Calvinist I would likely leave and join somewhere else. Nothing personal, I don't care for Reformed theology.

    As a side note, the most vitriolic, abusive theological attacks I've suffered over the past ten years have been primarily from people (mostly uniformed foot soldiers) of the Calvinist perspective. I have emails full of attacks on m person, letters to our senior pastor and personnel committee, and have had these people yell at me in group settings because I don't teach on the 5 points. And I don't teach against Calvinism openly, but when asked I will give an honest, biblical reply.

    BTW, I don't read the person in the OP as being hateful...just discerning. :)
     
  3. Shortandy

    Shortandy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    0
    You must have missed the part about this family liking my preaching. It wasn't until I said something that they left. So discernment has nothing to do with this. They thought was I was saying was biblical until the phrase "Calvinism" was mentioned. That is such a funny thing...don't you think?
     
  4. exscentric

    exscentric
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,253
    Likes Received:
    16
    "In my integrity I have not conscientiously tried to indoctrinate people from the pulpit. I simply do my best to preach the word, being faithful to the text and pray that the people would respond accordingly."

    This is not the reform team I have encountered, most are way more agressive. I might add that even in your post there is an us/them divide and they are the ones that are wrong and need to come to your team :smilewinkgrin:

    Many reformers are out to take over churches for the "team" and your family may have run into one of them. If they really are committed to non reform then protect their children they should.

    As to why they left after this long, maybe they just realized which team you are on. :tongue3:
     
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,545
    Likes Received:
    272
    IME, it has been demonized, and the demonization of it has it's roots from the pulpit of those whose livelihoods are derived from the 'soul-winning economy' that they feel is threatened by the reemergence of the Doctrines of Grace. Period.

    The bulk of my clan is Southern Baptist (free will brand) and Democrat, and I was insidiously taught growing up that any other than those two were in danger of hell's fire, and now I'm neither. I ran into a long lost cousin at Walmart a while back; she was telling me of the SB Church she was attending that had split from a large SB Church in town because it had begun reformed teaching, and her exact words concerning them was 'evil Calvinists', so I had to explain to her that me being Primitive Baptist put me in that category also (she didn't know).
     
  6. John Toppass

    John Toppass
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    7
    Just the fact that you had been pastoring there for 3 years and your faithful congregation did not know that your were playing on "team Calvin" until now, throws up a red flag IMHO. Maybe this family was looking for a pastor playing on "team Jesus"
     
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,131
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    So, you would leave a church that was pastored by a man who believed the 5 points (or Heads of Doctrine) of "Calvinism?"


    Which of the 5 points do you disagree with?

    1. Total Depravity? Do you think there is a part of natural man that is not fallen and thus is good enough, on its own merits, to go to heaven?

    2. Unconditional Election. Do you think there is something good enough in the natural man to meet God's standard of perfection and thus merit heaven?

    3. Limited Atonement. Do you believe all men everywhere without exception will be saved?

    4. Irresistible Grace. Did you, or any Christian you know, resist grace to the point of damnation?

    5. Perseverance of the Saints. Do you believe the born again can lose their salvation and that they are not preserved by God unto the day of full salvation?
    What bible are you reading that teaches that man is good enough on his own for heaven, that man is not really fallen, that all people without exception will be saved, that saved people can resist unto damnation and that a born again person can lose their salvation?

    :)
     
  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,131
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    It seems to me the divide was caused by the family who did not understand the Gospel deciding to leave. Shouldn't we all play on God's team?
    Well, if they are committed to a false gospel then it is probably better for the church as a whole for them to leave. However, that "protection" may well cause their children to hear a false gospel, make a false profession of faith, and end up in hell. That is not very parental or protective in my way of thinking.
    Yes, when they realized the pastor was playing on God's team they had to leave, right?
     
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,131
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    That is what he said. He preaches the biblical gospel. When the family found out they left. :(
     
  10. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,138
    Likes Received:
    364
    It's very sad to think that there are those who would be so against the doctrine of grace that they feel the need to be "protected". If that is how narrow and strict someone will be, then let them go. What ever happened to discussion? Why not speak with you to find out more about what you believe and maybe have a civil discourse in what the Bible has to say? I guess that doesn't happen when someone is confronted with something against their own pre-conceived notions.

    Now if you were standing there saying "We're not going to give the Gospel anymore because God will save whoever He wants to save anyway so instead we're going to just learn amongst ourselves", well then I'd agree. But to walk away because of the word "Calvinism"? Ridiculous.
     
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,545
    Likes Received:
    272
    ..........and I wanted to add this, I've seen it many times over; God's children deep down love to hear of His power and majesty and sovereignty; and then someone comes along and informs them that what they've been listening to is 'Calvinism' or 'Hardshellism'; and then they want no more of it.
     
    #11 kyredneck, Sep 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2010
  12. sag38

    sag38
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,394
    Likes Received:
    1
    My problem would not be so much that you were a five pointer when you came to be my pastor, but for some reason failed to disclose that fact from the very beginning. What else might you be hiding? I'm not a five pointer but it's not a deal breaker as far as I am concerned. I know people who are five pointers who will give you an honest answer when asked but don't preach it as being the cat's meow. I could have them on my staff, serve under their leadership, or have them as my pastor with no problems. The one's who are members of the Founders Movement, etc., now that would be a different story. I don't want to be told that I'm being untrue to my Baptist heritage (the founders don't dictate who I am today), that I'm ignoring that which is clearly taught in God's word (I would beg to differ) or that I must change or it's the highway. I'm afraid that's the subtle intention of the Founder's Movement to conquer and divide.
     
  13. sag38

    sag38
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,394
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ann, you say that it is sad. But, would your church allow a staff member to serve who did not fully adhere to the Doctrines of Grace? Me personally, I have a problem with limited atonement (and no, I don't won't to debate about it. That dead horse has been laid to rest as far as I'm concerned.). Would that disqualify me from consideration?
     
  14. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,138
    Likes Received:
    364
    Nope - there would be no issue there. I think the atonement is the biggest issue that people have and I don't know that we can fully understand that doctrine in our earthly view. :)
     
  15. RAdam

    RAdam
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    0
    One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the fact that some that hold to the doctrines of grace are extremely arrogant and hard-hearted toward those that don't agree. I did not say all, but some, and people can be exposed to these types of grace believers and become turned off by their attitude. There is a tendency in man to judge the whole by some part.

    That is why it is so important for all believers in the doctrines of grace to be patient, kind, loving, etc. toward all those that disagree.
     
  16. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    In all my experience, it has been the non-calvinistic, that have offered the most offensive remarks. Calvinism is one of the most misunderstood and misrepresented of all the theological systems. Still, I don't think I have ever disfellowshipped with a fellow believer in Christ in all my life.

    Yes, I am a strict calvinist theologically, but not a follower of Calvin, the man.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  17. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not a calvinist. I don't enter into the discussions because they always yield much more heat than light.

    I think the hateful remarks on both sides come from a small minority of those who really aren't very uncertain of the strength of their own positions.
     
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,131
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    Uh, that I believe in the inspiration of the bible? That I believe in the deity of Christ? Yep, "hiding" all those historic bible doctrines. That's me! :)
    I have been in the ministry for 35 years and senior pastor of my present church for 25 years (today is my 25th anniversary) and have never preached on Calvinism. :)


    But I do preach the Gospel. The Gospel of Christ, not the gospel of men. :)
     
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,131
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    Yes, I would not allow a universalist on my staff. Either the Atonement is limited to believers or out you go! :)
     
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,131
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    Amen and Amen! Well stated! :)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...