Why Does Evil Dominate the World?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TCGreek, Oct 27, 2007.

  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    1. Why does a good and holy and all-powerful God allow evil to dominate the world?

    2. The 5th cen. Greek philosopher Pythagoras phrased it this way:

    a. If God is all-power and evil exists, then God must not be all-good.

    b. If God is all-good and evil exists, then God must not be all-powerful.

    c. Evil is present with us, therefore, God must not exist.

    3. In Pythagoras and many others mind, an all-powerful and all-good God cannot coexists with evil.
     
    #1 TCGreek, Oct 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2007
  2. npetreley

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    Excellent OP. I can't wait to see the responses.
     
  3. Helen

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    1. Why does a good and holy and all-powerful God allow evil to dominate the world?

    If you read what God said to Noah after the Flood in Genesis 9:21, you will find that God mentioned to Noah that He knows the heart of man tends toward evil from his youth.

    The world was given to us. We tend toward evil in our natural state.

    Why hasn't God stopped it? For the same reason He would not allow Abraham to take the Promised Land while he was alive: the sin of the Amorites had not yet reach its full measure (Genesis 15:16).

    When sin does reach its full measure, that will wrap up world history (remember Sodom and Gomorrah).

    From a human standpoint, if we did not see how evil evil could get, then how could we ever have the least comprehension of
    1. What disobedience to God leads to
    2. How much He hates it

    Pythagoras and others forget that we have brought on the evil ourselves through our disobedience. We were warned, and have been warned repeatedly and have seen the results repeatedly. We cannot blame God for what we have done.

    But God allowing evil has served some very obvious purposes:

    1. It reminds us that there IS such a thing as evil and good and that we cannot achieve good on our own. This indicates something far outside human experience and control is very much involved.

    2. It repels people so that they will seek the good and seek the truth. Those who seek what is good and true will be led by the Father to the Son and thus to salvation.

    So there are a few thoughts. I am quite sure there will be more!
     
  4. russell55

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    Pythagorus's argument only works if evil means something that exists for an ultimately evil purpose.

    If you define evil like that, then the first two statements in the argument are true.

    But then is the last statement true? Is evil, in this sense, present with us?
     
  5. webdog

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    I agree...very good thread. I will only say that I see Pythagoras' "if...then" as telling God how to be God.
     
  6. TCGreek

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    How then do decide to define evil to make sense of its presence? What definition of evil do you hold that cannot coexist with God?
     
  7. russell55

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    I don't hold to a definition of evil that cannot coexist with God. :)

    That's Pythagorus's postition, not mine. And his argument only works if he defines evil as that which does not have an ultimately good purpose.
     
    #7 russell55, Oct 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2007
  8. TCGreek

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    Good as righteous is always gooding to be benevolent; one is the root and the other the fruit. I'm sure this is what Pythagorus had in mind.
     
  9. russell55

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    I editted my response while you were posting because I temporarily decided that in the long run, it doesn't matter.

    But perhaps it does....
     
  10. Magnetic Poles

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    Epicurus put it this way (well, translated from Greek that is):

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
     
  11. russell55

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    If Pythagorus takes God's goodness to mean that every act of God's is ultimately benevolent, then I don't think God is good in that way, and I'd dismiss his argument at that point.
     
  12. saturneptune

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    Since when is God part of a therom, puzzle, or logic exercise? Things are the way they are because God ordained it that way.
     
  13. russell55

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    He isn't. But we know that we can use logical arguments, as long as they are valid logical arguments, to find truth about God because God uses logic to communicate truth about himself to us. The problem with Pythagorus's logic exercise is not that he's using logic to find out something about God, but rather that his logical argument has flaws in it.

    Yes, but the God who ordained things is a God who has a purpose for everything he does, so there is reasoning behind everything he does.
     
  14. saturneptune

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    Yes, reasoning and logic beyond human understanding most of the time. If were different, we would agree more.
     
  15. canadyjd

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    John 3:19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil."
    Romans 3:10 "as it is written, 'There is none righteous, not even one; (11) there is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; (12) All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.'"

    I don't find scriptural support for the notion that God is waiting for us to do something ("seek what is good and true") so He can draw us to salvation. That would not be salvation by grace.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  16. Plain Old Bill

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    Where was pythagourus when God framed the world?What makes him think he knows God's heart,mind or plans? If he is so wise why has God never once consulted him for advice?:tonofbricks:
     
  17. npetreley

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    Evil was part of the plan and ultimately glorifies God. For one thing, without sin/evil we would never know the glory of God's mercy.

     
  18. Helen

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    Guess maybe you might appreciate the following, then...

    "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD.
    "Though your sins are like scarlet,
    they shall be as white as snow;
    though they are red as crimson,
    they shall be like wool.
    If you are willing and obedient,
    you will eat the best from the land;
    but if you resist and rebel,
    you will be devoured by the sword."
    For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.
    Isaiah 1:18-20

    "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."
    Jeremiah 29:13

    The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us."
    Acts 17:24-27

    "See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty.
    Malachi 3:1

    Seek the Lord, all you humble of the land, you who do what he commands.
    Zephaniah 2:3

    This is what the LORD says to the house of Israel:
    "Seek me and live;
    do not seek Bethel,
    do not go to Gilgal,
    do not journey to Beersheba.
    For Gilgal will surely go into exile,
    and Bethel will be reduced to nothing."
    Seek the LORD and live,
    or he will sweep through the house of Joseph like a fire.
    Amos 5:4-6a

    Sow for yourselves righteousness,
    reap the fruit of unfailing love,
    and break up your unplowed ground;
    for it is time to seek the LORD,
    until he comes and showers righteousness on you.
    Hosea 10:12

    For the Israelites will live many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without ephod or idol. Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the LORD and to his blessings in the last days.
    Hosea 3:4-5

    "Listen to me, you who pursue righteousness and who seek the LORD;
    Look to the rock from which you were cut and to the quarry from which you were hewn;"
    Isaiah 51:1

    As a fire consumes the forest
    or a flame sets the mountains ablaze,
    so pursue them [the Lord's enemies] with your tempest
    and terrify them with your storm.
    Cover their faces with shame
    so that men will seek your name, O LORD.
    Psalm 83:14-16

    Those are just a scattering of times men are told to do what is right and seek the Lord. In the long run, the entire Bible is an encouragement to seek the Lord and respond to His call.
     
  19. TCGreek

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    Good one POB! Reminds me of Romans 11:33-36.
     
  20. Benjamin

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    Well, I have no problem with that statement:

    (Jas 1:12) Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

    (Jas 1:13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

    (Jas 1:14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

    (Jas 1:15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    (Jas 1:16) Do not err, my beloved brethren.

    (Jas 1:17) Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

    (Jas 1:18) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

    (Jas 1:19) Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

    (Jas 1:20) For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

    (Jas 1:21) Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
     

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