Why Does God Chasten His Children?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by James_Newman, Oct 9, 2006.

  1. James_Newman

    James_Newman
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    Most everyone agrees that God chastens his children in this world. But for some reason, they believe that God can not or will not chasten anyone in the world to come. I would like to know why God chastens His children in this life, if there is nothing to fear at the judgment seat of Christ?

    Hebrews 12:5-10
    5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
    6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
    7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
    8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
    9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
    10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

    What profit do we look towards if we endure chastening?
     
  2. El_Guero

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    Is this a trick question?

    ;)

    :godisgood:
     
  3. James_Newman

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    It's at least designed to make people say 'hmmmmm'
     
  4. Helen

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    We are chastened because the job of the Holy Spirit is to transform us into the likeness of Christ. That takes discipline, training, learning...and following. When we stray, we get brought back to the path. He are HIS sheep, but that does not make us more than sheep in that sense!

    We do not know what heaven is like, but we do know that there will be no more tears or sorrow, etc. Since we, who are His followers and indwelt by His Holy Spirit, feel deep sorrow over our sins, I presume that means that our sinning, our rebellion, will be gone with our old flesh and that we will no longer be sinning, and therefore no longer need discipline.
     
  5. James_Newman

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    So, are you saying that God chastens us to keep us on 'the path' to heaven? If we despise chastening or faint, are we not saved then?
     
  6. deacon jd

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    This is exacly why I believe that every sin is not under the blood. Maybe my thread on this subject is what sparked this thread. Maybe ya'll are listening more than I thought.
     
  7. Lacy Evans

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    There are two kinds of fileal discipline.

    The first is the "Put you back in line" type that Helen spoke of. (Like Jacob's crippling wound to the hip)

    But many times the "father" says, "If you do/don't do this, then when I come home you're gonna get it. (Like Esau's loss of his birthright.)

    If we are promised loss at the JSOC for "bad deeds" done in the body, then why not expect it if we are disobedient?

    Lacy
     
  8. James_Newman

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    I confess I have not been following that thread. I started to, but we have had 3 or 4 threads going on a similar topic for a while now. But to address the issue of whether or not every sin is under the blood, I would say yes and no.
     
  9. deacon jd

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    Sounds like we are probably on the same page on this issue.
     
  10. Pastor_Bob

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    Verse 7 gives us the answer:
    Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

    God gives us what we need as His children, just as we give our children what they need. Sometimes, what they need is correction, rebuke, and discipline.

    The natural consequences of our sins will be realized here on this earth. Many times, God will not avert the consequences of our decisions. In my opinion, God's chastening is not punishment for sins, but rather the allowance of earthly consequences of our sin.

    That alone should be an incentive enough to "be partakers of His holiness."
     
  11. PASTOR MHG

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    This is another case of misunderstanding the timeline presented in the scripture. Nowhere in scripture does it say there will be no tears or sorrow IN HEAVEN. That is a blessing that is only realized in ETERNITY PROPER, which for the christian is here on a renovated earth in a physical city called NEW JERUSALEM. In heaven, on the other hand there will be shame and sorrow and tears, presumably, at the judgment seat of Christ.

    I think that much of the problem that you men are having arguing your case for your kingdom/chastisement doctrine is that those you are arguing with are unfamiliar with the timeline and events and terminology of Scripture.

    Though I am not convinced of your position, I have on more than one occasion seen those that are arguing against you, confuse the timeline and terminology used in scripture.

    You may do well to take some time to define your terms very specifically.

    JMO

    Max
     
  12. James_Newman

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    So God chastens His children, in order that He may deal with them as sons. I think this is a good answer. So what does it mean to be dealt with as a son? Better still, what does it mean to not be dealt with as a son?

    If the only chastisement a believer receives is the natural consequences of sin, don't the unbelievers also receive the same chastisement? What about Ananias and Saphira, were they reaping the natural consequences of their sins?
     
  13. James_Newman

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    You are right, Max, it is a constant hindrance to dialogue.
     
  14. donnA

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    God chastens us to correct behavior, same reason we chasten our own children, to guide us in the direction we are to go(not physical) to make us into the image of Christ.
     
  15. Pastor_Bob

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    It means that God recognizes that we are in His family. Since He is our loving Father, He has all right to discipline us.

    Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. (KJV)

    I did not mean to imply that my definition was the end all to the principle of chastisement; but it is a part in my opinion. Lost people indeed bear the consequences of sin, but they do not have a loving heavenly Father involved in the process.

    Absolutely, they lied to the Holy Ghost. In this instance, the consequence was death.
     
  16. James_Newman

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    OK, I can agree with all this, but to what end does the Father chastize His children? Is it just because He can? It says that it is for our profit. What profit do we gain through patient submission to God's chastening? We have established that this chastening is only for members of the family, what of a family member that faints or despises the chastening?
     
  17. J. Jump

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    And so the question is what happens to those children that continue in their disobedience? Does God just start to overlook the disobedience at some point?

    Annanias and Sophira are good examples. They were obviously disobedient, and suffered death. They didn't not learn obedience in this lifetime.

    So at death did they automatically become obedient?
     
  18. LeBuick

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    Remember all, you only chastise whom you love. You don't waste your time on people you don't love.
     
  19. Hope of Glory

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    Well, doesn't everyone, saved or unsaved, belong to God, so therefore, God chastises everyone?

    (Just something to throw in, not necessarily something I agree with, BTW.)
     
  20. LeBuick

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    I believe you have something here. I would say YES but for different reasons...

    A father chastise his child because of his love for that child and desire to see him do well and what is right.

    He would chastise the neighbors kids because they upset him, wanted to set them strait??????? Thoughts?
     

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