Why dont we keep the Sabbath again?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Emily25069, Feb 2, 2008.

  1. Emily25069

    Emily25069
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    I know that we arent bound to the law, but it really seems to me when I do my own independent bible study, that we should still be keeping the Sabbath-the real one. It seems different and seperate from the law somehow.

    God started it in the beginning. Jesus kept it (and all the other laws, I realize) but then tonight, I was doing my bible reading and in Matthew 24:20, where Jesus was talking about end times, he said to pray that our flight would not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

    This is just one of those things that Im not quite sure about.

    Any help? Any scriptures that can show me where we shouldnt be keeping the Lord's day. Even God in Heaven kept this.
     
    #1 Emily25069, Feb 2, 2008
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  2. TCGreek

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    1. Yes God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, that is, set it apart.

    2. While there's no record of the Patriarchs observing the sabbath, the Israelites were commanded to, as a reminder of their deliverance from Egypt (Deut 5:15). Now that's not applicable to any other people.

    3. Jesus kept the sabbath because he was born under Torah (Gal 4:4, 5).

    4. I believe that Matthew text is referring to the AD70 destruction of Jerusalem, when the gates of the temple courts would have been shut on the sabbath.
     
  3. Emily25069

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    that helps very much!
     
  4. JerryL

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    The Sabbath was and is a picture of our rest in Jesus. He is our Sabbath. The sabbath was never for gentiles.
    Look at the first verse before the commandments. He didn't bring us(gentiles) out of Egypt.

    Exo 20:2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
    Only the commandments that are naturally written on our hearts are we to obey.
    Luther has some good words about this.

    DR. MARTIN LUTHER; 1525: The Law of Moses Binds Only the Jews and Not the Gentiles. Here the Law of Moses has its place. It is no longer binding on us because it was given only to the people of Israel. And Israel accepted this law for itself and its descendants, while the Gentiles were excluded.
    LUTHER: To be sure, the Gentiles have certain laws in common with the Jews, such as these: there is one God, no one is to do wrong to another, no one is to commit adultery or murder or steal, and others like them. This is written by nature into their hearts; they did not hear it straight from heaven as the Jews did. This is why this entire text does not pertain to the Gentiles.
    LUTHER: That Moses does not bind the Gentiles can be proved from Exodus 20:1, where God himself speaks, "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." This text makes it clear that even the Ten Commandments do not pertain to us. For God never led us out of Egypt, but only the Jews.

    LUTHER: Again one can prove it from the third commandment that Moses does not pertain to Gentiles and Christians. For Paul [Col. 2:16] and the New Testament [Matt. 12:1-12; John 5:16; 7:22-23; 9:14-16] abolish the Sabbath, to show us that the Sabbath was given to the Jews alone, for whom it is a stern commandment. The prophets referred to it too, that the Sabbath of the Jews would be abolished. For Isaiah says in the last chapter, "When the Savior comes, then such will be the time, one Sabbath after the other, one month after the other," etc. [Isa. 66:23]. This is as though he were trying to say, "It will be the Sabbath every day, and the people will be such that they make no distinction between days. For in the New Testament the Sabbath is annihilated as regards the crude external observance, for every day is a holy day," etc.
     
    #4 JerryL, Feb 2, 2008
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  5. Aaron

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    Good so far . . .

    And that's why Sabbath-keeping supercedes the Mosaic Law. It is a part of Creation. Christ appealed to Creation when explaining why divorce was never acceptable even though Moses allowed it.
     
  6. Emily25069

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    Aaron

    You keep it then?
     
  7. PastorSBC1303

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    Have you read Hebrews 4, it may shed some light on it for you
     
  8. Tom Butler

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    See also Colossians 2:16-17

    "16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect to an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days;

    17 which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

    Also, go back to 2:14, Paul writes "blotting out the handwriting of the ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross."

    And the entire book of Hebrews is a plea for Jews not to go back to the Old Covenant. In 8:13 he described the Old Covenant as "that which decayeth and waxeth old and is ready to vanish away."
     
  9. Beth

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    maybe this will help

    My husband and myself sent a letter to a sister who also was struggling with the Sabbath question.

    All of us...my husband, myself and this sister and her husband were Sabbath keepers. By the grace of God we were delivered from the deception of Armstrongism...the Worldwide Church of God.

    Here is our letter to her, and we pray this will help you as well.

    The New Covenant is a completely new and different covenant.

    We have a new high priest under this new system, Jesus Christ, in the order of Melchizedek. We also have a new law.

    Hebrews 7:11 ¶ If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
    12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

    Our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. Heb. 7:14

    The law no longer applies to Christians as a covenant agent. A Christian has died with Christ. And so they are released from the law. A woman was released from her husband at his death. This is what happened to us. We are released from the rigid keeping of the law as a result of Christ's death.

    Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

    We die with Christ and we are released from the law.

    The point is there is a new covenant. The old system is still there, but we are no longer a part of it.

    The Old Covenant was perfect and righteous. There is no sin in keeping the old Covenant. The problem with the Old Covenant was not with the covenant, but with the people. People couldn't keep the Covenant. That covenant therefore actually condemns us, because it shows oursins, what our true nature is....which is depraved.

    Jesus Christ came and faithfully was obedient to the Old Covenant. He did not sin, meaning He actually "kept" the laws perfectly. He had to, because He had to be sinless, perfect, to be the sacrifice for our sins.

    The words of Jesus in Matthew were just for Jews....for people living in Judea. Jerusalem will be surrounded yet again by armies, divided....each conquest of Jerusalem is a type of the Tribulation. Jews can keep their ethnicity in the New Covenant....they certainly can observe the Sabbath, out of personal preference, but not out of a commandment.

    The Catholic church is wrong also, in changing the Sabbath to Sunday. They also do not comprehend the New Covenant, but are still actually under the law, but like Samaria, they are changing the laws to suit them!

    I think what we need to remember, which is hard considering our Sabbath background, is that Christ didn't "change" the law.....He brought a NEW Covenant. Therefore, the Old said, do not murder...the New says, do not be angry! The Old said, do not commit adultery...the New says, do not even look with lust!!!!

    Of course, there will be some common elements, because the underlying common thread is God's eternal law of love.

    The Sabbaths and the Feast Days will be kept in the millenium, because there are still promises which God made to the Jews which must be fulfilled. Eventually, everyone will be brought into the New Covenant. When that happens, that is when the New Heavens and the New Earth will descend.
     
  10. Dale-c

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    Emily, I have been going over the same thing and have not reached a conclusion yet.
    I don't have time to post right now but I will try to later.
    I heard something very interesting on the topic recently.
     
  11. Sopranette

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    We do keep the Sabbath, but it is a personal preference. Thank God we can have one day a week to rest, spend time with family, and reflect on God.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  12. Aaron

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    Whether I keep it or not isn't the point. The point is whether or not it is to be kept, and in what manner.

    Do you mean by this question is Saturday to be observed? No. Christ, the Lord of the Sabbath, took the handwriting of ordinances out of the way, and its observance was moved to Sunday by the Apostles. It wasn't a move done willy nilly, there's a tremendous significance in the move more than simply commemorating Christ's resurrection. The Jews attached a superstitious significance to Saturday. They believed that on that day, God was in some way visiting the earth more than on the other days. (And there was some truth in that superstition considering that Christ is the Sabbath Rest), but to move the focus from the day to Christ, Sabbath observance was moved to Sunday.

    However, my point is that the Sabbath Rest was created for man, and it was so from the beginning, not from Moses.

    If men focused more on the first part of the Commandment, six days shalt thou labor, then we would be talking less about whether or not we should be resting on the seventh.
     
  13. EdSutton

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    Tom Butler has this exactly right! I'll add these, if it will help, you in your own mind.
    The Lord Jesus Christ took care of this emnity once and for all time, when he was nailed to the cross on Mt. Moriah. How? He, personally, nailed the Mosaic Law to the cross, and abolished in His very own flesh, the penalty for breaking all the Mosaic Law, just as He took all sin, including all that not specifically named in the Mosaic Law, in His flesh. Now,
    Why would or should you or I want to go back to any part of being the slave of a bankrupt beggar, which is exactly what the Law is (Gal. 4:9), when we can live in all the riches of His grace (Eph. 1:7; 2:7) (May I suggest reading Gal.4 and 5, in this, as well? In fact, read all of Galatians!) Then,
    Why would one want to starve with Hagar in the cold, and under the bushes, when one can dwell in the tents with Sarah, and enjoy all the riches? That makes less than no sense.

    And in a word, that is why we are under no obligation stated or implied, to "keep the sabbath". I like the response of the late Dr. Oliver B. Greene. when a lady asked him, "Brother Greene, don't you 'keep the Sabbath'?"

    He wisely (and Biblically, I would add) answered, "Ma'am, I keep every day!"

    Amen!
    'Nuff said!
    Case closed!


    Ed
     
    #13 EdSutton, Feb 3, 2008
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  14. Tom Butler

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    God spoke directly to the apostles. It would have been quite simple for God to say to Paul, Peter and the others--"Now guys, you've got it wrong about the Sabbath. You need to keep observing it. This Sunday stuff is off-base."

    It's also interesting that in Acts, at the Jerusalem Council, the apostles and the church there agreed not to impose any burden of the Law on new Gentile converts, except that they not eat meat sacrificed to idols, abstain from blood, abstain from eating things strangled and they they avoid fornication. (Actsd 15)

    This would have been the perfect opportunity to reaffirm the Sabbath observance. But they didn't.
     
    #14 Tom Butler, Feb 3, 2008
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  15. Allan

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    Beth,
    The Catholic Church did not change the Sabbath to Sunday. The Sabboth has ALWAYS remained Saturday. But if you are refering to the day in which Christians come together in worship to God being moved from Sat. to Sun., please know it was NOT the Catholic Church who changed it but the Apostles themselves. This is something stated most often by Seventh Day Adventists but like many other things they have this wrong to.
     
  16. Tom Butler

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    Folks, this is serious business. The SDA has made sabbath-keeping the criterion for your relationship to Christ--even your salvation.

    SDA Prophet Ellen White: ""The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church." ... "The keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath is the reception of the mark." (The Great Controversy, Vol. 4, page 281.)
    Source: http://www.bible.ca/7-mark-beast.htm

    Although many SDAs no longer consider Ellen White a prophet from God, the SDA still holds that Sunday-keepers will accept the mark of the beast, and thus will not be saved.

    The SDAs also need to understand that they're on dangerous ground, because they have made sabbath-keeping necessary for salvation.

    Paul warned in Galations 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you that that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

    Paul spends much of Galations attacking the Judaizers, who taught that salvation is by grace through faith, plus keeping the Law.

    If I were an SDA, I'd think about that.
     
  17. Beth

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    Exactly Tom

    I agree with Tom.

    Thank you, Allan, for that clarification. Apparently, I still have some thinking left over from Armstrongism.

    If I could share our personal experience, as I wrote earlier, we were Sabbath keepers. The "founder" of our group originally observed only the weekly Sabbath. I think he was SDA, but not sure. As he studied the Bible, he began to see that the weekly Sabbath was a packaged deal. He couldn't understand why a church would only keep that weekly Sabbath....

    Therefore, he formed a group which observed the Old Covenant holy days....including Passover, First and Last Days of unleavened bread, Day of Atonement, Trumpets and Feast of Tabernacles. There are lots of other Sabbaths to keep, you see.

    We observed all of these as well as the dietary laws.

    My point is that you can't just take out the weekly Sabbath and say you are going to "keep" that one. The Covenant is a packaged deal, so to speak.

    It is just so imperative to understand that the Law leads you to Christ. The law defines sin. The law is good but we could never, ever keep it. For all have fallen short of the glory of God. There is no one righteous, no not one.

    If you really want to keep the Sabbath, how would you go about it? Even in the WWCG, people kept it differently. Will you try to gas up your car so you don't have to go to a service station from Friday night to Saturday night? Will you, like the ultra orthodox Jews, cook your meals before Friday sunset, so you don't have to cook on the Sabbath? The winter months prove very challenging for those who work outside the home, since sunset can be before five pm. Are you going to be able to take off from work an hour earlier so you get home before four thirty pm? Do you intend to walk everywhere rather than drive your car? What would you define as "work"? Anything you define as work you need to avoid.

    When you witness, you will find yourself in a real bind. What will you say? You are saved by grace, not works, lest any man shall boast.....and by the way, you MUST keep the physical Sabbath...rest on Saturday from all physical work.

    I really suggest you study for yourself the covenants, and reread Galatians in particular.

    I'll pray that the Lord convict you that His Grace is sufficient!

    Your sister in Christ,
    Beth
     
  18. Beth

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    Ed

    Ed's post is also excellent...you have some very discerning brothers on this board that really help, Praise the Lord!
     
  19. Jonathan

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    I've not heard it expressed this way but Aaron's point is one that I've held for several years. The question of "should we observe the Sabbath?" is similar the question "Do I have to be affectionate to my wife?" With respect to John Piper, the answer is something like "Of course, but not in the way you might think. I "have to" because I can't imagine even wanting the alternative."

    The concept of Sabbath is something we've largely lost in our unending search to win doctrinal debates. Goodness, the concept of "rest" is something that we've lost in our desire to be seen as working harder than the next pastor or lay leader. As a people, with few exceptions, we Baptists seem to delight in damaging our bodies and minds by eating too much and resting too little.

    There is a reason that you feel, from time to time, that church involvement sometimes seem like drudgery or that you have to muster up enthusiasm for worshipping through song and the preaching/hearing of the Word: we haven't prepared ourselves with enough rest.
     
  20. EdSutton

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    Herbert W. Armstrong was actually from an organization known as the Church of God, Seventh Day, and thus, he is not from any direct SDA lineage. There are some similarities, but also some basic differences in the two groups. The COG, 7th Day, dates back to the earliest years of the "Adventist" movement, and started as a sort of two winged off-shoot in 1858 and 1860, and merging as one, in 1863. The SDAs actually started, as an Adventist entity, in that same year of 1863. The COG 7th Day ordained H. W. Armstrong in 1931, but he split with them a couple of years later, and the organization revoked his credentials in 1938.

    You are also very perceptive and correct to observe that the OT covenant is a "package deal". We find a lot of folks that want to be able to "pick and choose" just what laws they will 'keep', and which ones they will 'toss'. Or like the song, "The Gambler" says,
    "...that the secret to survivin',
    Is knowin' what to throw away and knowin' what to keep."


    One interesting, and somewhat humorous question to some of what you have written, here. Why would one especially need to gas up a vehicle prior to the Sabbath? Unless one was literally "running on fumes", or driving a 'Hummer' in need of a tune-up in the worst way, it really does not take a tremendous amount of fuel to travel a total distance of less than a mile, which is actually allowing for a "Sabbath day's journey" trek to another locale and back 'home' again? :tonofbricks: :thumbs: :laugh:

    Ed
     
    #20 EdSutton, Feb 4, 2008
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