Why Don't we Keep the Sabbath?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by christianyouth, May 10, 2008.

  1. christianyouth

    christianyouth
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    Hey all. This is a question that has been nagging me for awhile. Why don't we honor the sabbath to keep it holy, especially if it's in the 10 commandments?

    :)
     
  2. Dale-c

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    Because we don't have to obey the ten commandments anymore.
    Or at least that is the way some will answer.

    It has nagged me a lot too.

    Setting apart time for God is a moral law for all times.

    The specifics are positive law that could change with the covenants.

    I believe we still must give a day to God but we are not under the same specifics of the OT.

    BUt I still don't have it all ironed out.
     
  3. Linda64

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    In Genesis 2:2-3, God did not give the Sabbath to man...this was God's Sabbath/Rest..not man's. The Sabbath was given to the children of Israel as a special sign; as a perpetual covenant between Israel and God in Exodus 31:12-18:

    Exodus 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
    Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
    Exodus 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
    Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
    Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
    Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
    Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

    Jews all over the world still keep the Sabbath on the seventh day (Saturday). I am not speaking of the Jews who believe in Christ and are members of the Body of Christ/the Church.

    The Sabbath was never given to the Church. Christ is the fulfillment of the Sabbath...He is our Rest. In a sense, the Sabbath is a symbol of our salvation rest in Christ. (Hebrews 4) The New Testament believer is not bound to keep the Sabbath (Col. 2:9-17).

    Jesus gave us 2 commandments:

    Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
    Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
     
  4. Alcott

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    Because such a command is not repeated to NT Christians, and Romans 14:5-6 and Colossians 2:16 clearly indicate it's an individual's choice.
     
  5. donnA

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    The 10 commandments were written to the hebrews, and only the ones repeated in the N.T. apply to us. The sabbath is not repeated. The N.T. says the sabbath was created for man, not man for the sabbath. As long as we have 1 day a week set apart for worshipping God. We do meet on Sunday, the first day of the week because the Bible calls it the Lord's day, the day Jesus rose from the dead.
     
  6. Steven2006

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    Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
    Col 2:17 things which are a {mere} shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.



    Gal 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?
    Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
     
  7. EdSutton

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    We 'establish' the law; we don't 'keep' the law.

    "because you are not under law but under grace" (Rom. 6:14)

    Incidentally, I can't "keep" something I never had, and I never had the law. (Rom. 2:14)

    Ed
     
  8. HankD

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    Jesus Christ is our Sabbath.

    We don't keep the earthly sabbath for the same reason we don't offer animal sacrifces anymore.

    Jesus Christ fulfilled the the Law of sacrifice as well as the Sabbath rest.

    When we enter into His rest we enter into that fulfillment of the New Covenant.

    NAS Hebrews 4
    9 There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
    10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
    11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall through following the same example of disobedience.

    Matthew 11
    28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

    HankD​
     
  9. christianyouth

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    Ok, so what it sounds like is that if something is not explicitly taught in the New Testament, but was taught in the Old Testament, we chuck it. Is this a good way of understanding the Bible?

    Is it ok for us to cut ourselves for the dead?(Lev 19:28) For our daughters to be prostitutes(Lev 19:19). Neither of those commands are reitterated in the NT. (many more examples of OT commandments that are not reitterated in the NT, even principles such as national judgement, that most fundamentalists believe in, but is exclusively an OT principle, or the concept of prosperity being granted to the godly, another OT principle.)

    I mean, if we took this to its logical conclusion, we would have to throw out most of the OT. The OT teaches that if you raise your child in the way he shall go, when he is old he shall not depart from it. There is no NT affirmation of this. It teaches that God will grant prosperity to the one who meditates in his law day and night, this is a principle that is not found in the NT, do we get rid of this too? The point is, we recognize that all scripture is inspired by God. We know, as Paul said, that events in the OT occured to give us, NT believers, an example. If this is true, why then should we take this particular precept, taught throughout the whole of the OT, established at creation by God himself, included in the 10 commandments, and chuck it because it was not mentioned in the NT?




    Because it's in the 10 commandments(which we all recognize as moral) and because it was an ordinace established at creation, therefor showing it cannot be a Mosaic Ceremonial law, the burden of proof lies on the anti-Sabbitarians.

    Ed, does God desire us not to murder? The law that is being referred to is not just the ceremonial part.

    (Rom 2:20) An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

    Paul is showing that these people are teachers of the law. Now let's see how they teach this law that he is referring to all throughout Romans :

    (Rom 2:21) Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
    (Rom 2:22) Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
    (Rom 2:23) Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonorest thou God?

    So in context we can't say this was only talking about the ceremonial aspect(it was talking about that too, Rom. 2:24). If that's true, your statement above is saying that as Christians we should not abstain from stealing or committing adultery, because that's the 'law' that Paul is referring to.

    Also, Donna says
    How are we to interpret that? The Pharisees were judging Jesus because he and his disciplies were picking corn off. And Jesus replies by saying, "Remember when David went into the temple and ate the shewbread, that it wasn't lawful to eat?" And that's when the phrase comes up, "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."

    To me this sounds like he is saying that the Sabbath was not intended to be a burden, but a blessing. It wasn't supposed to be grim. He is saying that the Sabbath was made FOR man, that it was an institution to serve mans good. Not that man was made to serve the good of the Sabbath.

    That could be a wrong interpretation, but I don't see how that in anyway teaches against the Sabbath.

    More to come, I'll let ya'll respond. :)
     
  10. Martin

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    Because the sabbath is between God and the nation of Israel, not God and the Church. Notice what the Word of God says:

    "The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor and was refreshed" -Ex 31:12-18

    Notice the purpose of the sabbath commandment. It was a covenant between God and the nation of Israel. Nothing about non-Jews is mentioned and this is never repeated to the Church. In fact, the New Testament clearly states that the Sabbath is not for the Church. When Paul talks about the Sabbath he always does so in relation to liberty and not command. In other words if a Christian wishes to follow the Sabbath then that is fine, however Christians are not required to follow the Sabbath and Christians are not to judge/condemn one another for following or not following the Sabbath (and other such days).

    "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the LORD, and he who eats, does so for the LORD, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the LORD he does not eat, and gives thanks to God...Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath day - things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ" -Rom 14:5-6, Col 2:16-17

    Why does God not repeat the Sabbath commandment to the Church?

    1. Because it was a covenant between Him and Israel, the church had nothing to do with it.

    2. Because the Sabbath was just a shadow of Christ. Now that Christ has come He has fulfilled the Sabbath and He is our sabbath. That is, He is our salvation (Heb 4:4-11).

    You should read what Paul says in Colossians 2:1-23 and consider it in light of the sabbath issue.

    So it is not about "chunking" part of the Scriptures, nor is it about picking and choosing. It is about rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

    Speaking of picking and choosing, I find it interesting that those who claim to believe that the church is suppose to follow the sabbath don't follow the sabbath law themselves. What do I mean? Notice that the Scripture forbides "any work" (Ex 31:14) on the sabbath and those who "profanes it shall surely be put to death". I have seen these seventh day folks at resturants on the sabbath forcing others to break the sabbath. If it really applies to the church today their causing others to sin is a sin. Furthermore, why don't they execute those who break the sabbath. After all, the same texts they use to say that we should keep the sabbath also says that those who break the sabbath must be put to death. Therefore the seventh day folks are not following the sabbath law. They are free to observe one day over another if they wish, but their theology is unbiblical and inconsistant (at best).

    Hope that helps.
     
  11. christianyouth

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    Martin, that does help, though I think that must Sabbitarians would say that while there was a ceremonial aspect to the Sabbath that was given specifically to the nation of Israel and therefor not binding on NT Christians, there is also a moral aspect.

    They would appeal to the creation covenant, that God hallowed the 7th day at creation, and therefor it was not just ceremonial.

    Here is a brother from another board illustrating the difference between the ceremonial aspect of the Sabbath and the non-ceremonial through Hebrews 4:1-10.

    I'll look into #2 as well, Martin. :)
     
  12. Martin

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    ==The ceremonial, civil, and moral divisons of the Old Testament Law is artificial and not Biblical. In fact one scholar pointed out, and I forget who it was, that the three are so closely married in the Old Testament that trying to divorce them is very, very difficult. While such divisions can be helpful to us at times, we must always shy away from building doctrines on such artificial divisions. The Old Testament Law is very clear, the sabbath was a covenant between God and Israel. There is no application for gentiles in the modern church. The New Testament clearly states that believers are no longer under the Old Testament Law. Beyond that, as I pointed out in my previous reply, the New Testament makes these things matters of liberty and not commandments. So I would simply caution you about building doctrines on artificial divisions. We are always safer when we stick with the text and not try to find ways around what the text clearly says. See my previous reply for Scripture references.

    ==The Law itself is based on creation. However the sabbath law, like the rest of the law, does not apply to the church. The sabbath was a covenant between God and Israel, not God and the church. So their appeal is meaningless since it violates the direct and clear statement of the purpose of the sabbath law and what the New Testament says about the Law in general.

    Therefore I can't agree with Pastor Steve Bradley's understanding of Hebrews 4. He is ignoring too much Scripture. Btw, is he a seventh day adventist of some sort?
     
  13. J.D.

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    Martin, do you believe in "keeping" the Lord's Day? In other words, may we treat Sunday as just another day of the week?
     
  14. Martin

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    We worship the LORD on the Lord's Day. However that is not the Sabbath. Two different things.
     
  15. J.D.

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    Is there a real difference between saying "the Lord's Day" and "the Christian Sabbath"? Is it just semantics?
     
  16. Martin

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    Yes, there is a very real difference. One, the Sabbath, is Biblical in connection with the Old Testament. The "Christian Sabbath" is not a Biblical term since neither the term nor the teaching are found in the New Testament.
     
  17. J.D.

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    I see what you are saying now. Have you heard the teaching that "sabbath" doesn't mean "seventh day" but rather "one day in seven"? Do you think that is true? Could we "keep" a sabbath on Sunday as one day in seven if that were true?

    This is a difficult issue and one in which we should not be condemning of anyone's viewpoint. I even respect people that have church on Saturdy in an effort to obey the decalogue.

    And shouldn't we all obey the ten commandments? Let's put it to a test:

    I should:
    1. Obey the TC
    2. Disobey the TC
    3. Ignore the TC

    Are there any other options? Also, isn't ignoring the TC the same as disobeying the TC?

    I realize the some people will say that yes, we should keep the ten commendments, but the fourth commandment is ceremonial, and therefore done away with, while the others remain enforcable as moral laws. But this does not make sense to me. God clearly singled out the TC as a particular set of laws apart from the other laws. They were written on tablets, they were placed in the ark, they are specificially spoken of as a distinct set of law separate from the other precepts in the OT. Can we say that the first three tell us how to behave toward God, and the 5th through 10th tell us how to behave toward man, but the 4th law was only temporary? I don't think we can do that and be consistent.

    But some say we are under the law of Christ, not the law of Moses. Well then, so be it. So let's keep the law of Christ and not forsake the assembling of ourselves together, assembling together on the first day of the week in the manner of the apostles and disciples. Either way, we have a day to keep unto the Lord. Yes?
     
    #17 J.D., May 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2008
  18. christianyouth

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    So, then we reason like this
    1)The Law is fulfilled and unecessary for the Christian
    2)The Sabbath is part of the Law
    3)Therefor the Sabbath is fullfilled and unecessary for the Christian.

    The problem with this reasoning, is that we can put ANY command in 2), not just the Sabbath. We could put the ten commandments in there. We could say,
    2) Abstaining from Murder is part of the law

    So basically, when you are saying that Christ says, "We are not under the Law", you think he means that Christians have no obligation to the Law in it's entirety? I don't think you are, since from reading your writings you are anti- anti- nomian lol. But please clarify. :)
     
  19. Martin

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    ==Yes, I have heard that and no I don't believe it is Biblical. A day of rest and worship is great, we all should do that, but we should not call it the Sabbath. Why not? Because it is not the Sabbath. The Sabbath is Saturday, not Sunday. The "Sunday Sabbath" teaching has opened too many doors for cults like the Seventh Day Adventists. We need to stick with Scripture and not invent things to fit our cultural history. We need to learn to know the difference between Biblical Christianity and Americanized Christianity. While much of American Christianity is Biblical, much is not. And that is where we need to be very careful.

    This is not just a matter of what we call something, not at all. Words have meanings and those meanings can confuse people if those words are misused or misapplied. The Sabbath is an Old Testament covenant and it has no bearing on the church. Therefore calling Sunday the Sabbath is only confusing the issue and people.

    ==As I pointed out in my first reply to Christianyouth, I don't condemn people for this (Col 2:16-17, Rom 14:5-6). However I will attempt to clearify the issue as much as I can.

    ==The Ten Commandments are only part of the larger picture. Yes we should obey, but we can't just ignore what the Old Testament says about the Sabbath covenant with Israel. Having said that, I agree with should obey. I am not teaching antinomianism (lawlessness). I am only trying to point out that we are not under the Law and the Sabbath Law was only a covenant between God and Israel.

    ==Of course, I don't believe in "doing away" with any of Scripture (Matt 5:17-18). We have to realize, however, that each passage has its historical and Biblical context. The context of the Old Testament Sabbath teaching is a covenant between God and Israel. Trying to apply the Sabbath to the church is error only because it ignores the Biblical/historical context of the Sabbath. It also ignores the fact that Jesus has fulfilled the Sabbath (Heb 4:1-11).

    ==If that is your approach towards the Sabbath Law then that is fine. However keep in mind you must obey all the Law (Gal 3:10, Deut 27:26). That means you must observe the Sabbath on the Sabbath, you must do no work, your family must do no work, and anyone who violates that must be executed (Ex 31:12-17). You say that is extreme? I disagree. It is being consistant. The approach you explain above is ignoring what the Old Testament teaches about the Sabbath.


    ==I agree, but that is not the Sabbath. You may think I am being too technical with this, but this is an important technical point. I have seen too many people get confused and drawn into questionable churches over this. We need to be careful how we word things. Saying we observe the Sabbath, when we really don't, will confuse people. Maybe we know what we are saying and what we are not saying, but many new or unsteady Christians may not.
     
  20. Martin

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    ==I am not going with "reason", I am going with Scripture. That does not mean that Scripture is unreasonable but only that we have to pay more attention to what the Scriptures actually say and less on how we may reason things out. I would also never say that the Law is not important to people today. It is important, the Law points us to Christ (Gal 3:24, Rom 7:7). However the Law contains no salvation. The Law only contains judgment for those who are under it (Deut 27:26, Gal 3:10). Why? Because nobody keeps the Law (Rom 3:23, 6:23). The Law, however, does not bind Christians. We obey because we have been born again and love the LORD.

    ==Actually that will not work. With the Sabbath we are directly told in the Old Testament that it is a covenant between God and Israel (Ex 31:12-17). We are never told that the Sabbath covenant has been extended to the church. Never. What we are told, however, is that Christ has fulfilled the Sabbath and has become our Sabbath. As for observing one day over another, as I already pointed out, we are told by Paul that it for the Church a matter of liberty and not commandment.


    ==We are not under the Law, however that does not mean we are free to do what we wish. If we are born again we will, not might but will, obey Christ (though not perfectly in this life). However obeying the Law will get a person no place but under judgment since no person can obey it perfectly. Certainly we can look to the Law to see God's moral standards (etc) and the Ten Commandments are important in that way. We should certainly seek to obey them since they show God's moral standards. However that does not mean that all ten of the ten commandments apply equally to us today. The Sabbath covenant was restricted to Israel, as were other parts of the Law, and Christ has now fulfilled that. Can we take lessons from the Sabbath? Yes. We all need a day of rest and worship. However that is not the same as saying that Christians must observe the Sabbath.
     

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