WHY DOST THOU JUDGE THY BROTHER?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by GIG, Sep 30, 2002.

  1. GIG

    GIG
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    I have noticed a disturbing trend in IFB churches all across America and on Baptist boards such as this, to condemn, insult and ridicule anyone who does not believe exactly as we do...I know we are to call sin, sin etc..but can anyone share with me what Paul was talking about in the Book of Romans Ch 10 vs 10-14?? When he said Why dost thou judge thy brother? Am I understanding these verses all wrong?? Is there a context that I don't see? Please help me understand ....
     
  2. C.S. Murphy

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    GIG did you possibly mean romans Chapter 14 instead of 10? I think so as it tells us not to judge or set at naught our brother. It is often easy for us to cross the line from discussion and debate to anger and judgement. Our view is always best (according to us) and the hard part is that each of us think his view is God's view. Ofcourse Osamma thinks that same thing doesn't he. Thanks for calling us on it and remind us when we cross the line and become a stumbling block.
    [​IMG] Murph
     
  3. GIG

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    oops, Fingers got confused..Romans 14 10-14...It is a trend that has been disturbing me a lot lately..we travel all over the country singing and preaching in Baptist Churches, and I have heard the term "When Paul or Jesus said this, this is what he really meant..." on numerous occasions...whether we like to admit it or not, there are still a lot of gray areas in the Bible that can be interpreted by Man (made of flesh) in different ways....we have to be very careful about that "We are right, everybody else is wrong mentality" there was a group of people called the Pharisees who leaned in that direction too...
     
  4. Optional

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    I Corinthians 6:2

    I Corinthians 6:3

    I Corinthians 6:5

    I Corinthians 10:15

    I Corinthians 10:29

    BTW, just because someone speaks directly and straightforward does not mean they are angry or hateful. You give this medium too much power for me. I've only ever become passionate over one issue - and that's been a while and was in a different forum. Don't think because someone disagrees with you and is direct they are mad or hateful or any negative emotion. Most of these issues have nothing to do with salvation and are fluff in my opinion. Definitely nothing to get steamed over - maybe a decent debate...
    I debate on forums a lot tougher than this one. Believe me, this is a pretty sheltered place. :)
    Just my .02.
     
  5. DocCas

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    Optional, I tend to agree. It seems to me when someone cannot answer an argument they often resort to charges of "bashing" and "hating." Just look at the "Other Religions" forum. Everytime someone shows Catholic dogma to be in error they are accused of "Catholic bashing" and "hate mongering." I guess Baptists are not above doing the same thing. :(
     
  6. GIG

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    Doccas, I was not involved in an argument nor stumped on how to answer any of your statements, merely questioned your name calling...

    Optional, thank you for your scripture, that is what I was looking for when I started this thread...Now maybe you can help me farther... All scripture is given by inspiration and those scriptures and Romans seem to say 2 very distinct opposite things...am I not seeing the context here? just a little confused
     
  7. DocCas

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    I didn't engage in name calling. [​IMG]
     
  8. Optional

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    Look out, confusion is of the Devil.
    Ok, ok - bad joke. [​IMG]

    No, I believe Paul is speaking of 2 different forms of judgement. We are to judge brothers in sinful behavior and matters of unsound doctrine, etc. We are not to judge a brother's salvation.
    I beleive most debate is centered around the former.
    Peace
     
  9. GIG

    GIG
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    Definetly apologize if I was in error... I don't want to scare you but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong (just ask my wife)
     
  10. C.S. Murphy

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    If you are trying to point out our flaws you have done so, but when a person starts a thread reminding others of name calling and then throws out the name pharisee have you not become guilty of your own charge? Peter said no private interpretation so i say no gray areas.
    Murph
     
  11. Johnv

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    I have noticed a disturbing trend in IFB churches all across America and on Baptist boards such as this, to condemn, insult and ridicule anyone who does not believe exactly as we do...

    I agree with you. It happens in SBC circles as well. This is the first time I've said this publicly, but I'm considering leaving the Baptist church because of how much this type of behavior is tolerated. I've been to other churches that hold to the same core biblical beliefs, yet do not berate their bretheren of other denominations the way we do.
     
  12. Helen

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    Let me offer an opinion as to why it happens. I think there are three reasons.

    1. The easy one is that some are quite insecure either about themselves or their faith. These people tend to get very defensive, angry, arrogant, and then make excuses for their activity. Although this can appear as immaturity, I have a feeling it is far more often, in grown men and women, insecurity.

    2. We all start out from different positions when we accept Christ, and are born again. Some come from a very liberal background. For them, the Holy Spirit must lead toward the conservative side. They must learn obedience and trust in the authority of God. But others come from very conservative, even legalistic backgrounds, and for them the Holy Spirit must lead towards the understanding of freedom in Christ. So the 'come from conservative' looks at the 'come from liberal' or vice versa and the criticisms start, just as though WE were the Holy Spirit in each others' lives! Essentially, this problem is lack of trust in the Holy Spirit!

    3. People are very uncomfortable with freedom, even though they shout and yell for it. The sort of freedom most people want is the freedom to make up their own rules (or select the ones they like) and then enforce them in their own world, however large or small their world is. Watch children playing a game -- if there are not enough rules to cover the situations they find themselves in, they will make up more rules on the spot. But when we are born again in Christ, we are given a freedom we are not only unaccustomed to, but which those who are professing Christians but not born again have no way of understanding. And so the non-born-agains or the newly-born-agains start to make up more rules! Churches get organized around these rules. Then the churches and the members in them all start fighting each other, generally along conservative/liberal lines.

    It makes for a great witness!

    What I have seen during my own Christian growth is a remarkable degree of tolerance (which I used to judge quite harshly when I was a new Christian!) in the more mature in Christ. They have learned just what is important to stand up for. Straight biblical doctrine gains in importance and the cultural mandates lose their importance. Tradition takes a distant second to the obedience to the Holy Spirit within.

    And always, always, they express the love of God to others. This something that has to be learned via the work of the Holy Spirit in one's life. We do not start out being able to show or give this kind of love. Instead we normally start out judging others in terms of ourselves.

    But I think there finally comes a time when the combination of maturity and humility finally does its work and the person becomes far less accusatory towards his or her brothers and sisters in the faith.

    Just something I've noticed...
     
  13. LadyEagle

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    I agree. Baptists tend to be VERY judgmental. Was just having a conversation about this very subject the other day with someone from AG. I've even seen Baptist "evangelists/music minstries" who proclaim they won't go to any "charismatic" type churches to minister. :rolleyes:

    Won't heaven be a surprise when born again believers from other denominations show up, especially some of those "wild types" who believe the gifts of the Spirit are still valid. [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Wisdom Seeker

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    where there is GRACE there can be no commencement of hostilities. Were there is PEACE there can be no continuation of hostilities.

    Two spiritual blessings that are given to the believers: Grace and Peace.

    If a believer is not exibitting Grace and Peace maybe they need more time in the Word and with the Father in Prayer.

    Same ol', Same ol' check out this same topic in another forum. link to MEANNESS topic

    "You can lead a horse to water (the Word) but, you can't stop him from being a stubborn mule" :rolleyes:
     
  15. C.S. Murphy

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    Amen Wisdom Seeker that is a good one.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Maverick

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    Paul had to call Peter a hypocrite and he called other names as well to folks maybe not brothers. Sometimes it is nicer to be blunt with someone rather than try to sugar coat things. I normally try to "judge" doctrine rather than the doctrine holder since I learned that some folks hold to things because of personal hurt in their lives or just because that is all they know or they have been exposed to some Liberal slop in some cemetery.
     
  17. DocCas

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    All of the "peace" posts are certainly interesting, but sometimes we seem willing to sacrifice Truth on the altar of "peace" while ignoring the scriptures. Jude 3 "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." [​IMG]
     
  18. Wisdom Seeker

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    Peace is part of the scriptures. If you ignore that truth aren't you just as guilty of not contending for the faith? My post about Grace and Peace being spritual blessings may be "interesting" but that doesn't negate that they are true and are found in the word of God. I am also contending for the faith when I remind people of that fact.

    To think that to contend for the faith means to become an offensive, self-righteous, mean-tempered, contentious person all with the justification of contending for the faith...Obviously is not what that passage or any other in the Bible means.

    It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Taking an adversarial approach will keep a person from hearing the truth in what you say.

    (I've left out the middle of the chapter for brevity's sake, I would encourage any to read it as well)

    Proverbs and the Epistles of Paul are also books that I would recommend to anyone thinking that Grace and Peace are merely "Interesting". Jesus Christ said to love your neighbor as yourself. It is the second greatest commandment. To love God above all else, Is the first.

    Lev. 19:18, John 15:12, John 13:34-35, and many many others speak on the importance of this topic as well.

    I encourage you to read the whole word of God, ruminate on it with prayer. And then contend for the faith in the way that the Bible says to. To do otherwise is to put "self" before God. Die to self. [​IMG]

    [ October 02, 2002, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]
     
  19. DocCas

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    I didn't say it wasn't. But the "peace at any price" type of Christianity is foreign to the bible. Paul withstood Peter to his face when Peter was wrong. We are to follow that scriptural example. This saccharin sentimentality which passes for biblical love and peace today is unknown in the scriptures. [​IMG]
    I wasn't aware I had made any such claim, or were you just calling me names in a contentious manner? [​IMG]
    I have read the bible cover to cover over 200 times since I was saved as a young man of 27. I meditate on the word, and pray daily. I have been in the ministry for 28 years and am now in my 18th year as senior pastor of the Lord's church here in San Diego. I have taught at two bible colleges and one Seminary for a total of 18 years. I contend for the faith whenever the opportunity arises. I apologize for not asking your permission to defend what I believe to be "the faith" in the manner in which the Lord has led me. I was not aware he had placed you in authority over me. Maybe He just forgot to tell me. :D And I died to self and began to live for Him when I was 27. That was all or part of 4 decades, two kids and 5 grandkids ago. [​IMG]

    So, please feel free to express yourself and your position, and please allow me the same courtesy. After all, that is the Christian thing to do, isn't it? And, of course, we all know that as Baptists we all highly value our Soul Liberty, one of the great Baptist distinctives. [​IMG]

    Have a very nice day. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  20. Squire Robertsson

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    Our Lord stated it clearly when He said
    His claim of exclusivity stands in sharp contrast to the syncretism of His day.

    [ October 02, 2002, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: The Squire ]
     

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