Why I like LIberals...

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Bible-belted, Aug 16, 2002.

  1. Bible-belted

    Bible-belted
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    even though I am theologically conservative:

    In my experience:

    they tend to be less judgmental

    they seem to be more aware of sin and grace even if they don't believe in them necessarily [​IMG]

    they tend to be less dogmatic, less prone to getting on your case if you don't use their pet phrases.

    Gosh, ya know they're just... nicer.

    I know that this doesn't hold true for every liberal. I've met some that are meaner than junk yard dogs. But on the whole this I have found to be true.

    And for that reason (Lord, help me) I prefer their company to that of theological conservatives most days...

    :D :rolleyes:
     
  2. Justified

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    I have to ask you a question. :D

    Was Jesus a liberal? :eek:

    And what Scripture do you use to back up your views? [​IMG]

    "It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version ;)
     
  3. Bible-belted

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    I have to ask you a question. :D

    Was Jesus a liberal? :eek:

    And what Scripture do you use to back up your views? [​IMG]

    "It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version ;)
    </font>[/QUOTE]Case in point. :cool:
     
  4. Justified

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    What kind of answer is this? :confused:

    Well? :rolleyes:

    "It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version ;)
     
  5. Scott J

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    Please forgive me if I don't sound nice.
    I haven't read many of your posts. In what ways would you qualify yourself as conservative and in what ways more liberal?

    Not a very good conservative start... :D

    Not a very difficult task when you don't hold to any absolutes... nothing beyond compromise... nothing that will not be sacrificed for the sake of fellowship. When we fundamentalists hold the Bible up as our standard, people's actions are judged... and rightly so. It is the Word of God. We should not make any apologies for "not being nice" when the Bible calls something sin.

    How is it nice to let someone continue in an error when the Bible gives the truth?

    Besides the obvious contradiction within your statement, I would tend to disagree. In fact, I would say that the opposite is true. They seem to want sin to reflect culture rather than scripture. If that is your definition then I would agree that they emphasize the "politically incorrect" sins.

    Personally, I have never meet a liberal that had a strong grasp on the issue of grace. In general, their liberalism is motivated and defined by their belief in man's goodness... greatly discounting God's unmerited favor towards us.

    Depends on the topic. You obviously haven't debated with BW Smith about evolution. They have their own dogmas and their own ways of "getting on your case." They tend to be condescending to those who are not as wise as they.

    I imagine that many of them are nice in the generic sense. But don't mistake pity or condescension for "niceness." Many times, they think we disagree simply because we aren't as educated or intelligent as they are. They don't usually say it out loud... it is implied.

    Again, find the issues they care about and you will see their other side.

    Indeed, Lord help you. ;) :D :D :D
     
  6. Bible-belted

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    Justified asked:

    "What kind of answer is this?"

    It's a short one. [​IMG]

    Seriously, it is meant to say that the pointed nature of your questions is illustrative of those things which allow me to appreciate theological liberals so.

    Scott J said:

    "Please forgive me if I don't sound nice."

    No sweat. This is th worst medium when it comes to not coming across as you intend. :cool:

    "In what ways would you qualify yourself as conservative and in what ways more liberal?"

    Well, I hold to verbal pleanry inspiration of the Bible, Inerrancy, the full deity of Christ, that sort of thing.

    Liberal? Well I probably show more social concern than your average conservative evangelical. I am proabably less likely to equate one's interpretation of Scripture with Scripture. I believe there is a proper place for Higher Criticism in biblical studies (though not for the conclusions of such radicalas as Crossan, Funk, Borg etc).

    " Not a very difficult task when you don't hold to any absolutes... nothing beyond compromise... nothing that will not be sacrificed for the sake of fellowship. When we fundamentalists hold the Bible up as our standard, people's actions are judged... and rightly so. It is the Word of God. We should not make any apologies for "not being nice" when the Bible calls something sin.

    How is it nice to let someone continue in an error when the Bible gives the truth?"

    I don't think that is the indictment you think it is. I believe that it is those who hold to the truths of Scripture who should be less judgmental of people. Their actions are another thing. We aren't known as being conservative so much as condening of people. Condemning sin and condemning sinners is not the same thing. But we do a poorer job than do liberals of maintainng the distinction between the sinner and the sin. We are itersted less in restoration and reconciliation, it seems, than liberals are. Granted they tend to do it by way opf winking at sin. But we should be better at restoration and reconciliation precisely because we don;t wink at sin. Yet that is not the case.

    "They seem to want sin to reflect culture rather than scripture. If that is your definition then I would agree that they emphasize the "politically incorrect" sins."

    What I mean is this: liberals seem to understand that there is such a thing as "Christian behaviour". And they know that the church doesn't hold to it. The liberals I know understand that for the church to be what it should be the church needs to change,and needs God for that. Less prone to being sanctimoniously self righteous if you will.

    "You obviously haven't debated with BW Smith about evolution."

    Actually I have, though in other fora. And on other Biblical studies issues. That IMO is a case of someone just being zealous for new information (I won't call what he espouses facts or truths). Kinda like a kid witha new toy (no I am not callling him immature). Besides Smith isn't a liberal. He's a "moderate Soutern Baptist" last I heard. ;)

    "find the issues they care about and you will see their other side."

    That's true for everyone. But I find they haver fewer of them than conservatives.

    As for niceness vs. condescension, I don't find that. Sure there are some, but that's true on either side. On the whole I find that they genuinely are nicer. it isn't for nothing that fundametalits and conservatives are known as "angry Christians".
     
  7. Baptist Believer

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    First of all, Jesus was correct -- it was not a matter of conservative, fundamentalist, moderate or liberal opinion.

    Second, the theological "liberalism" of Jesus certainly offended the theological conservatives (the Saducees) because of His "belief" in the resurrection -- a belief that the theological "liberals" (the Pharisees) embraced. (The Pharisees were theological liberals of their day because they believed in doctrine that wasn't clearly spelled out in the Old Testament, like resurrection.)

    The theological "conservativism" of Jesus offended the theological "liberals" (the Pharisees) because he condemned their addition to and misinterpretation of the Law.

    Third, the practical, or social, "liberalism" of Jesus offended the practical "conservatives" (the Pharisees) because of His insistence upon grace for the sinner instead of judgment and the primacy of the spirit of the Law over the letter of the Law.

    The practical "conservativism" of Jesus offended the practical "liberals" (the Saducees) because He condemned them for not following the Law.

    Depending on who you talked to:

    Jesus was a liberal.
    Jesus was a conservative.
    Jesus was a radical.
    Jesus was a heretic and blasphemer.
    Jesus was a demoniac.
    Jesus was insane.
    Jesus was and is the Son of God.

    His followers will often be called the same names as Jesus. In my opinion, if you are not routinely accused from both theological and social extremes (fundamentalist and liberal), you may not be walking the same theological and social path as Jesus.
     
  8. C.S. Murphy

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    Latrai This post is so petty. You know the way you describe liberals maybe you should become one. But I almost forgot, you said they were nice so would they let you join their ranks? Or for that matter me either, but I prefer to stay out. although I understand about hating sin and not the sinner, when the liberal Pastors discount most every sin as just a reinterpreted lifestyle, I am happy that I am too mean to be invited in.
    Mean ol conservative ignorant Murph
     
  9. stubbornkelly

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    Friend speaks my mind.

    (Course, I'm known as a liberal around these parts, so maybe I'm a tad biased [​IMG] )
     
  10. David Cooke Jr

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    Latreia,
    Although I have been blessed to find some very "nice" conservative brothers and sisters on this board, my experience has been the same as yours. True, shake a liberal hornets' nest and you'll also get stung-but there seems to be a whole lot less nests and you have to shake them harder. It seems like alot of the far right hornets come looking for you whether you've shook the nest or not.
     
  11. post-it

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    I'm a open minded, conservative liberal with republican tendencies. :cool:

    I'm impressed, Baptist Believer. Good form too. [​IMG]

    [ August 16, 2002, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]
     
  12. TheOliveBranch

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    Murphy,
    Amen.

    Latreia,
    There are alot of unsaved in the world that are nicer, too. And the cults are loaded with nicer. Sometimes there are so many nice people out there that they nicely allow the lost to go to hell, for fear of offending. Are you sure you are conservative? I find more nicer conservatives than liberals every time I step foot in my church. And I have been to more than one conservative chuch, and every time, nicer greets me at the door. ;)
     
  13. Rev. Joshua

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    Thanks.

    Just don't threaten to take away our hummus, our granola, or our Birkenstocks :D !

    Joshua
     
  14. Bible-belted

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    Murph,

    Petty? Gimme a break. But thanks; the vitriol illustrates my point well.

    TheOliveBranch,

    You're a good illustration too. Call into question my theology just because I see some good things in liberals? Come on! (We cannot tolerate dissent or criticism can we? We, have the TRUTH after all, never mind we don't treat people in a manner befitting that fact.)

    Sure you can find nicer poeple in other religions and stuff. But what you seem to not understand is that this stands as an indictment of us, and not them. We of all people should be nicer, and we're not. The people who actually understand less about Christ (theologically) do a better job in many ways of living like Him. rather than excuse our lack of orthopraxis by pointing to our ortodoxy we should be repentant about how or orthodoxy does not result in more orthopraxis.
     
  15. Clint Kritzer

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    Hmmmm, maybe I AM doing something right! [​IMG]
     
  16. post-it

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    I have to agree with your observation OliveB, but here's the rub to that fact. These more conservative members you are talking about are looking for new friend since they can't keep any very long. These people tend to have the same personality of Insurance Salesmen and Multi Level Marketing Amway types. If you don't follow their exact expectations after meeting you, they drop you like a rock. Same with the conservatives that seek new blood at the Church door. Once a conservative finds out about my liberal views they never talk to me again except in social grace.

    So, I would rather skip this person and find a "real" person with normal expectations and acceptance of their Brother and Sisters.
     
  17. Bible-belted

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    Thanks.

    Just don't threaten to take away our hummus, our granola, or our Birkenstocks :D !

    Joshua
    </font>[/QUOTE]Well, certainly not the Birkenstocks!
     
  18. Bible-belted

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    David Cooke Jr,

    Yeah, I'm with ya! Preach it!
     
  19. Kiffin

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    Hmmm...try being a Pro Life Democrat and see if the Liberal Democrats will allow you to speak at the Democratic Convention. Hmmm...when has the NAACP invited Alan Keyes, Niger Innis to speak at one of their conventions Hmm...or how about how the Flordia Secretary of State had her looks attacked by the Liberal Democrats Hmmm...How about NOW and all those lovable feminists ignoring charges of sexual harrasment against Bill Clinton....Oh, those lovable fair minded teddy bear liberals :rolleyes:
     
  20. Naomi

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    Originally posted by Scott J:

    How is it nice to let someone continue in an error when the Bible gives the truth?

    Hi Scott,
    I was just curious at how one lets someone continue in error?
    We are to be witnesses. If one is in error of the truth, I always read in the scriptures that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. Should we speak the truth in love, and rely upon the Holy Spirit to convict? or should we continue clearing out the specks? ;)
    Just curious,
    Naomi
     

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