Why is it impossible for God to lie?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gup20, May 4, 2009.

  1. Gup20

    Gup20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1
    Num 23:19 God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

    Tts 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    Hbr 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:


    Have you ever considered why it is impossible for God to lie? I think Romans gives us a hint:

    Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

    Think of "God said let there be light, and there was light". If God has such creative power in his voice, it would literally be impossible for God to lie because whatever he said would BECOME truth because He said it.

    There wasn't light. God said - let there be light - and then there was light. If God can't lie because whatever he says becomes reality.

    Think about it -- if you pointed to an empty room and said "look, there is a dog" and a dog appeared, then you would quite literally be incapable of lying, wouldn't you?
     
  2. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Blasphemy on aisle 2...Blasphemy on aisle 2...
     
  3. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's not helpful. Explain what you mean. How do you oppose this point of view. surely God words create reality. He spoke the Universe into creation.
     
  4. Gup20

    Gup20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1
    Can you explain what you mean, and how this is blasphemous?


    blas⋅phe⋅my
     /ˈblæs[​IMG][​IMG]mi/ [blas-fuh-mee]
    1. impious utterance or action concerning God or sacred things.
    2. Judaism. a. an act of cursing or reviling God. b. pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) in the original, now forbidden manner instead of using a substitute pronunciation such as Adonai.
    3. Theology. the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.
    4. irreverent behavior toward anything held sacred, priceless, etc.: He uttered blasphemies against life itself.
     
    #4 Gup20, May 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2009
  5. matt wade

    matt wade
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    76
    He is referring to the deleted post that used to be before his...not the OP.
     
  6. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Billwald posted a blasphemous post (calling God a liar) that was deleted.

    Without that, my post makes no sense. Sorry.
     
  7. Gup20

    Gup20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well that makes sense. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what I had said that was blasphemous.
     
  8. Melanie

    Melanie
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,779
    Likes Received:
    5
    Why is this even a question

    God is Love
    God is Truth

    therefore to be other would be a denial of the above

    :tonofbricks:
     
  9. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    2Ch 18:21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
    2Ch 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.
    2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    HP: Here are some strange passages to consider.

    I believe at the heart of this issue lies the question as to whether or not God is free or if He is bound to necessity. If it is totally outside the realm of posibilities to do any thing other than what He does, God has no choice and as such has no freedom.
     
  10. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Somebody might want to try to throw a monkey wrench into things by trying to array God against himself.

    That is, is God is all-powerful and can do what he wills, then he can lie. If he can't lie, there is something God can't do and therefore, he's not all powerful; therefore the Bible contradicts itself; therefore, the Bible can't be trusted.

    See what I mean?

    Of course, God does not act contrary to his nature. He does not lie because it is against his nature to do so. His nature does not allow for his lying, and that is the sense that the Bible writers are trying to convey.
     
  11. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: Not exactly. Are you saying that God has no choice in what He does and He is driven by necessity as opposed to choice?


    HP: What sense are the Bible writers trying to convey in the verses I mentioned? How would you explain them in light of the position you take concerning God and His ability or inability to send a lying spirit and or send delusions?
     
  12. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    I fully realize I have presented some difficult passages at best in post #9, but just the same are we to simply overlook them, try to find a version that leaves them out or changes them or what?

    Let me add just one more difficult passage. What about the man of God from Judah and the prophet of 1 Kings? 1Ki 13:21 And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD, and hast not kept the commandment which the LORD thy God commanded thee,
    22 But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the LORD did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers.
    23 ¶ And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, to wit, for the prophet whom he had brought back.
    24 And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase.

    Who or what could have directed the prophet to this entice the man of God to turn aside from the commandment God had given him? Did the prophet of God lie to the man of God? Was he directed he do so? Were did the prophet get his insight into the matter which led to his pursuit of the man of God?
     

Share This Page

Loading...