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Discussion in 'Missions / Witnessing / eVangelism' started by Salty, Mar 30, 2015.
Found this webpage of a church.
Several things I disagree with -
how about you?
First off, we must understand that this is Spamderson so we need to take what he says with a grain of salt. But I've asked this question of them - actually specifically about making disciples rather than a list of people who have prayed a prayer with them. Of course I was shut down and banned from their board.
But let's look at the excuses he makes up:
1. They don't speak English. Then start a Spanish church or whatever language they speak. Or find a good church in the area that is already functioning well that speaks the language that they speak and encourage them to go there.
2. They are older children or teenagers. Very often, parents will be happy to bring their children to church even if they are not church attenders. There is also the possibility of starting a bus ministry.
3. They live too far away or have no gas money or vehicle. Get them plugged into a local church or arrange transportation for them. We often arrange to pick up people who can't drive to be able to get them to church.
4. They are too shy to visit. Then go to them, disciple them and as they grow, they will seek out fellowship.
5. They already go to church somewhere else. If it's a good Bible teaching church, awesome!! Sometimes someone else plants the seed, another waters and another sees the harvest.
6. They are recruited to another church by friends or family member. Awesome!! That's wonderful!! They are going to church and hopefully it's a good Bible teaching church.
7. They are too lazy to go to church. Well then I'd question whether there is a real heart change here. I'd also question whether my label "lazy" is the right one and I'd see if there were other issues going on.
8. They are physically disabled. Then again, arrange for transportation or go to them and have church where they are. We have small groups meet in group homes, nursing homes and facilities that care for the disabled. We also have a special Sunday school class for the disabled that has been a great blessing and we've seen many come to the Lord and even their "handlers" - the people the state has to assist them when they go out.
9. Their spouse does not want them to come. This is again where we can then individually disciple someone. I've not met many spouses who forbid their spouse from coming but when they do, we make sure that they have fellowship and resources to be able to grow in the Word of God.
10. They are offended by something in our church invitation. Well, we ARE speaking of Faithful Word and even I as a believer find them very offensive. If the offense is in the Gospel, then I'd wonder if there was a true conversion here but if the offense is something that we are doing outside of the Gospel, I'd look to see if what I'm doing is offensive.
So really, there are answers to each of these "excuses" that he has listed here. We have had people saved and end up going to other churches and since we have a wonderful network of Evangelical churches on Long Island, the pastors are in touch with each other and know that if Mary and Joe go to Grace Church, they are under fantastic teaching and we need not worry about them. They are plugged into the local church and that's what matters.
(bold my emphasis)
Excellent answers. Those are the same basic ones I came up with. ( I did not post, as I wanted to see what others had to say.)
I would add to point 3 - if people live too far away - then start a new church.
Or is it that Sanderson does not trust anyone else?
And I would like to add one final point.
How many people "get saved" just to get Sanderson off their back.
He states he as memorized a good portion of the New Test - well, if he did memorize Matt 28:20 "Teaching them....."
I agree. They are very much "say this prayer and you're saved" kind of people and so I'm sure people would be happy to just get them out of there in any way they can.
I hope I will not get annihilated for suggesting a Francis Chan book. I'm reading through Disciple right now. Excellent stuff; discipleship is not limited to pastors and teachers! It's for every one of us. Which means we need to understand our gospel and our faith well enough to share it actively with others. Our "converts" (which they're not really ours, it's the Father that enables them to come) need to have personal relationships with us, not to just be ticks on a scoresheet.
Do you have a link to their forum? I didn't see it on the link provided.
Never mind, I found it.
It's more than just saying a prayer and relying on someone else to get you saved. People need to go directly to God for salvation. There are more false converts than there are true born again saved Christians. Pastors need to stop assuming that just because someone said a prayer they're saved. We MUST be born again, truly regenerated by the Holy Spirit. Those excuses just show that most pastors probably aren't born again themselves.
Seriously, salvation is not only about going to church once in your lifetime and saying some sort of a prayer, and just like magic, you will be saved right away. It's not as shallow as that. Salvation is more about having a personal relationship with God, praising and worshipping Him, and reaching out to people so they would know about God's word.
Oh boy, the information they pass out when they go "soul winning" is terrible. One of them explains why they are KJVO. Another one, under the heading of "What We Believe" has several points that start out "we reject...."
Also, I've never known an IFB, KJVO church that is post-trib rapture.
The reason newly converted people don't come is that we (most churches) no longer practice the Great Commission.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
The Great Commission is a three-fold command (Ecclesiastes 4:12 And a threefold cord is not quickly broken.)
1. Teach them (the Gospel)
2. Baptize them (into the membership of a bible teaching local church)
3. Teach them (continuing action) to observe all things commanded of them.
I once talked to a fellow pastor who was complaining his soul winning team won as many as 25 people to Christ every week but seldom did more than 1 or 2 ever come to church.
I asked him what type of followup program he had. He said, "None! If they are really God's children they will find their way to God's house."
A couple months later his wife had a new baby. I stopped in to congratulate him but he was in a hurry. I asked him where he was going in such a hurry. He said, "To the hospital to bring my wife and new baby boy home!"
I said, "Well, if he is really your son he will find his own way home!" He just stood there and stared at me with his mouth open.
Baby Christians, like baby people, need a lot of extra care. Including inviting them to church, picking them up and driving them to church. Including them in the fellowship of the church. Taking them out to lunch after church. And doing the same thing over and over and over again until coming to church on Sunday morning becomes a new, spiritual, habit. We have forgotten the key to church growth: assimilation. Making the new convert part of our church.
But we have adopted the "Billy Graham method of evangelism." We preach the gospel to them, then, when they get saved we send them right back to their old life, old church, and old friends without bothering to complete the last two commands of the Great Commission.
By the way, keeping 1/3 (winning them) of the Great Commission is 33%. That is an "F" in every school I ever attended.
Keeping 2/3 (wetting them) of the Great Commission is 66%. Still an "F" in every school I ever attended.
We need 3/3 (worshiping with them) of the Great Commission to get that 100%. And that's how you get an "A."
The most interesting part of Sanderson's bio on their church's web page is his statement, "Thousands have been saved, many have been baptized."
Thousands saved and "many" baptized? How many Steve? I know your average Sunday morning attendance is under 100. So, if "thousands" have been saved, where are they? Did you forget the last two parts of the Great Commission?
I guess you get an "F" in Great Commission Keeping!
There are so many judgmental people in the church that they wind up discouraging people who hve just joined and don't know any better yet. Instead o coming from a place of teaching, they are coming from a place of criticism, and who is going to go someplace when all they are going to get is criticized for every little thing they do. So people will say, I'll just pray and study by myself so that I don't have to deal with the other people. They forget that the Bible teaches to forsake not the fellowship.
I think a lot of the time people will only turn to God and ask for his help in times of need and desperation. People who have never said a prayer and even denied he exists have turned to God in their hour of need.
When the time as passed they won't even thank God for his intervention or for what did or didn't happen to make them stronger, so it comes as no surprise that they toss God aside until the next time they need him.
A few of these are pretty out there. I guess people can come up with any excuse to not go to church. I don't think it's much of an excuse when it comes to laziness. You should just never be lazy for church and even if you are an all around lazy person, sitting isn't doing much.