Why So Much Education?

Broadus is correct in his understanding of my post--you are not. Seminary, as a formal educational institution, did not exist during the early church period. However, there was instruction of men to become pastors and teachers. This is comparible in concept and principle to seminary today. Your response was repartee, not rebuttal.

On what level do you propose to carry out this debate? Wisecracking or rational reasoning? Yeah, I did a few wisecracks too. You responded seriously to my repartee. However, once said, it is not something that argues or debates the finer points of nonsense. Asking the name of the seminary didn't win you any points.

 

What? Define your antecedent.

 

So, how do you know?

 

not sure what you ask.

 

Paid:
Broad said "Buckster, What is your hangup that keeps reading "seminary" in every post? Paid referred to being trained "by godly men who have been trained by other godly men."

I did not have to read it you (Paid) used the word.

 

I am not sure how you apply this to what we are talking about.

 

Ask what? Use quote function.

 

So, how do you know? </font>[/QUOTE]Know what?

 

Working smart is not always force times distance such as shoveling manure. Working smart actually accomplishes more than what one could posisbly do alone. Working alone is the problem with non-leaders who do not understand leadership. They will pat themselves on the back so hard telling themselves how hard they work but not accomplishing much.

For example: I took a company and turned it around in two weeks after it had been losing money for the previous five years. The manager before me worked at least 12 hours each day while at the same time not knowing what to do and unable to turn the company around. In fact his hard work paid off by losing money each month. I worked on the average of 8.5 hours. It became the most profitable in the company and had increased the most in sales in one year. We took that company from second from the bottom to third from the top in one year. It's not about hard work. It's about smart work.

Once I graduated from seminary I could write a much better sermon in less time than I had written a poorer sermon before. More education helped me to do things faster and with more ease.

Certainly, I wouldn't want an uneducated heart surgeon or undertaker to operate on my heart should I need that. The undertaker has seen a lot of hearts but he isn't qualified and not capable of doing what needs to be done.

When building a house I would rather pay a finish carpenter 35/hr. to do finish work than a laborer $10/hr because the finish carpenter wil get it done faster and better and cost me less than the laborer. The laborer may get the material on the wall but it will not be done right.

A person who is skilled will get much more done and do a better job in less time than an unskilled person.

 

A perusal of Scripture indicates plainly that God expects our best. How can we rationalize foregoing seminary as God's leading when it leaves us less equipped than we might have been. To parody the Army, our goal should be to be the best we can be for the glory of God. It follows that pursuing the best education made possible by the circumstances would be an integral part of this goal. IHMO, the Scriptural teaching is to become equipped. The Biblical pattern is to sit under the teaching of godly men. BTW, there is more to be gained here than the contents of books.

 

So, how do you know? </font>[/QUOTE]Know what? </font>[/QUOTE]What you claim to know!

 

I know SOME who went to school to avoid work.

 

I think you (paid) got off on a comment I made to John thinking it was for you.

 

Rhet,
I would tell your friend first of all there should be no such thing a just a pastor.The pastor of a church has many duties which your friend may not be familiar with,going to Bible College and seminary is a way of getting the proper tools to deal with all of the situations that are bound to come up in the everyday activities of an average pastor.

Perhaps you can ask him to think in terms of being the pastor of a church that runs about 150 active members.Among these members is a family of five,a husband who is a truck driver,wife is stay at home mom of 3 children a boy 7,two girls one 10 years old and the other 14 years old. We have another family of 4, father is an accountant, mom is a school teacher(elementary),15 year old twins one boy,one girl. The list goes on, some of the families are good and some are barely functional.There is the normal amount of everything good and bad going on in all of the families.Some folks are in financial troubles,some have marriages that are going south for a variety of reasons. One family has a gay son, another family a gay daughter. Some of the deacons in the church have a good view of thier responsibilities and other deacons want to run the church.Not to mention getting the discipling done, the sunday school properly run and administrated by the Sunday school superintendant and SS teachers, oh by the way make sure someone is in the nursery.In addition make sure the visitation program is running smoothly.There are a couple of dozen other things to look after and I need to look after my family.
Question is what is the best way to prepare for all of this I don't want to go insane or quit.It will also be helpful for me to get a pastor mentor while I am in Bible College and Seminary to help prepare myself.Then I have the wonderful reasurrance that it's what I learn after I know it all that really counts.

There is no higher calling than to be the pastor of a church. Not only is it a great honor, it is an awesome responsibility for it is to God you will answer.

 

For the young person who sent the original email...I'd counsel him to get a degree from a seminary for the betterment of his family situation. Simple facts are that someone with a seminary degree (no matter how paltry of an institution) has a better opportunity to maintain a steady income level than one without.

With the proliferation of easy to get distance learning degrees, churches and ministries are going to look only at candidates with education/degrees and leave the rest out. While I understand and appreciate the view that you can be as effective a pastor w/o a degree as with...do you really think you'll be in the same church all your life?

Furthermore, how in the world is this young man going to learn some basic ministry practices such as:

1. how to set up/organize an effective Sunday School/small groups program
2. proper hermeneutical methods for teaching
3. langauges
4. how to administrate a church effectively
5. how to lead a staff
5. the legal ramifications of xyz happening
etc.

 

In our day of accessible training, to refuse it probably indicates either an naive understanding of the ministry and the Scriptures or a laziness which refuses the hard labor of mental and spiritual work.

As I said earlier, the highest calling necessitates the highest training which one can obtain. An earlier time in our culture, that may have meant that seminary training was unavailable to most. That is no longer the case.

Considering the costs of education, I say, consider the costs of not getting the education. One's personal abilities are stunted and one's congregation loses on the type of ministry which could be carried out. It does require sacrifice. Financially, I am trying to play "catch up" since I was paying for an education and receiving less pay while others my age were paying off their mortgages and saving for retirement. Still, I wouldn't trade.

The family situation needs clarification. I moved from a settled pastorate to Kentucky as a forty-something with a wife and 3 teenage daughters. It wasn't "conducive," but we did it and, thanks be to God, my family was never without material needs provided for. Sometimes a little faith may be required. Additionally, distance education may be the ticket, but such requires a great deal of personal discipline. However, "buyer beware": make sure the DE institution is quality.

"Just to pastor" betrays a naivity concerning the ministry. How about "just to be a physician," "just to be a lawyer," "just to be President"?

I've about "posted out" on this thread. I'll catch you on another!

Blessings,
Bill

 

before you go can you make clear what source these multiply spirits are from.

 

I would like to address this post:

[Typing in all caps is a violation of BB rules. It is considered shouting and not appropriate. Thank you].

[ January 27, 2006, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

Hi John,

I disagree. If one is in a profession s/he feels called to, then it is not a fleshy profession. A fleshy profession is someone doing a job for the sake of doing the job. For example, when I flipped burgers in high school to save money for college, it was a fleshy job, and it was flesh of beef, to boot. However, my career is me engaged in the profession that my Lord has called me into.

*********************************************
here now's reply:
I didn't mean to imply that God does not call some people to be in particular professions. I know that He does.

What I mean by "fleshly" professions, is that, there is nothing spiritual about them. The Holy Spirit does not "teach" them what they need to know to do their job.

But a true minister being equipped begins with the Holy Spirit. It does not end there. The Holy Spirit is not Santa Claus or an ATM machine. In fact, the presumption 'I don't need a formal education because the Holy Spirit will give me everything I need to know' borders on testing God, a scriptural violation. Not to mention, it's an indicator of laziness and an uncommitted heart. In short, it's bad fruit. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not saying that, no minister should be formally educated. But, there are some ministers that have had no formal education, who are absolutely God called. There is that "in the field" education. Sometimes the preparation starts at an early age. The Holy Ghost can use many sources to educate.

[ January 25, 2006, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: here now ]

 

here now, I would hope that all who enter the ministry are God-called. The fact that there are ministers without formal education doesn't make them any less called. But it may serve to leave them less equipped and less approved.