Why start an online BB ministerial academy?

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Rhetorician, Jul 23, 2005.

  1. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    To all who are likeminded and concerned with the theological training of men (and women) who have not had the opportunities we may have had?

    Let us start at the beginning?

    1. WHY do we need an online BB ministerial training academy anyway? It seems to me this is the FIRST and FOREMOST question? There are so many viable options out there for DL people/programs now?!

    2. WHAT would it look like? i.e., institute level, college level, grad school level? Teaching intro courses, survey courses, or in-depth courses? Remember, the ones who are to be taught will be from diverse backgrounds and we will not have a "gate keeper" for transcript evaluation or such. Some of the courses suggested on the other thread were way deep and difficult for novices.

    3. WHO will do what; teaching wise, admin wise, course development wise, et al? WHO will be admitted and on what basis will they be admitted?

    4. HOW will all of it be done? Will someone donate web space for a web page/site? If so, who will monitor it and pay for it? ETC. ETC.?

    5. WHEN do we see getting the thing up and going?

    It seems to me that we need an extended discussion of #1 above before we continue on to the other questions.

    These are just a few overly simple questions to get the ball rolling.

    I WOULD RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT ONLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE THEY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN TEACHING, ADMIN, COURSE DEVELOPMENT, MENTORING, PROCTORING, HELPING WITH WEB PAGE DESIGN, WEB MASTER, ETC. TO REPLY. LET'S TRY TO STAY ON TARGET AND NOT MEANDER ALL OVER THE MAP ON THIS ONE PLEASE.

    PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE!!! LET YOUR RESPONSES BE FOCUSED ON THE ABOVE QUESTIONS WITH THOUGHTFUL AND INSIGHTFUL ANSWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I hope this helps to "get the ball rolling." The previous discussions have been good. BUT, I SEE THIS AS A "POINT OF ORDER" OR "CALLING FOR A QUESTION ON THE MOTION" TYPE MOVE.

    My extended two cents worth!

    sdg!

    rd

    PS I IN NO WAY BELIEVE THESE ARE THE ONLY QUESTIONS THAT SHOULD BE DISCUSSED.
     
  2. UZThD

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    In regard to the first question on your good list, it seems to me that unless the following two conditions are met a BB school has little reason to exist:

    1) the cost to the students is kept nominal.

    There already are many expensive opportunities to do DL work . Were instructors donating time, expense to the student should be minimal.


    2) the coursework , including thorough teacher-student interaction, is credible.

    There already are free, simple Bible and theological studies available ; if only such are desired, then BB can simply point members to those existing opportunities rather than creating new ones.


    Uniqueness, IMO, will only be achieved by the correct combination of curricular substance and slender costs. This blending , I think, is a rarity in DL opportunities presently available.

    But, I will give time regardless if I'm asked and able.

    Bill Grover
     
  3. JamesBell

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    1. Such an "academy" is desperately needed. I know far too many Baptists that know they are Baptist, and that is about it. Some of these don't want the expense of seminary. Others don't think they need the formal training because they do not plan on serving full time in the ministry. Others may be looking towards a future in Bible school, but are not prepared as of yet.

    Also, many of these programs are denomination specific. This eliminates many of them from cinsideration for a person holding the beliefs of a Baptist dear.

    Simply, there are a multitude of reasons why such a program is needed.

    2. In a word "yes". Over time classes of each level could be put into place. I would think initially you would find intro and survey courses. However, after the initial classes completed these courses it would be nice to have more indepth training available.

    As for a "gate keeper", there is no reason why this couldn't be done. There are many fine men that are volunteering their time (at least initially) to the project. Surely, there are people that could help in administrative functions as well.

    3. The question of WHO is pretty simple. Any willing person will do what they are capable of doing. As far as admission, I would assume any person professing a saving faith in Jesus Christ would be admitted. It isn't as if this is an institution of higher learning in the traditional sense. If someone wants to learn, this would be an environment for them to give it a try.


    4. HOW will all of it be done? Will someone donate web space for a web page/site? If so, who will monitor it and pay for it? ETC. ETC.?
    4. I am sure that webspace could be obtained for free. I would guess a church would be willing to allow their site to host this "academy". If not, there are multiple free hosting sites available. Once established, I am sure that there would be someone willing to pay for the web hosting. It isn't all that expensive for an average traffic site.

    5. I would say that as soon as everyone involved in the program agrees to the answers to your first four questions, the program could get started. Those people volunteering their time to "teach" would then begin preparing the material for the subjects they have agreed to teach. Once that is prepared it is a simple matter of building the website and getting started.

    As for your conditions of who should answer... I feel I should throw out that I would be willing to work in just about any of the areas mentioned, other than teaching... because I am clearly not qualified to take on that task!
     
  4. Plain Old Bill

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    Great to hear from you James Bell.If you could,I waould appreciate knowing a little more about you in a PM.Your help will be greatly appreciated.
     
  5. Plain Old Bill

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    I would see no reason not to request transcripts from those who would ask for advanced standing.
    We can get a free web site with up to 250 mega bits of space free.I could set it up if pushed but would really like someone with real web page experience to do it.
    I have discussed the need before. First for many it is just flat out to expensive to pay $175 per sem hr for tuition which is a pretty common rate for most DL schools.Second the curriculum is as lacking as my spelling,with emphasis leaning toward academics or practical or practical to academics leaving one side or the other lacking.Third access to a good balanced school which is also doctrinally sound is limited on the net.Fourth it provides a way for some to minister and go to school at the same time without travel problems.Fifth it gives students from all over the world a chance for a good education at minimal to free cost.Sixth it is a way for those who will be professors and administrators to fulfill the great commission,disciple and multiply ourselves as we are instructed to do.seventh it is way to answer the call of God and enable others who are called of God to be properly equipped to answer thier call from God.

    What level should we teach at? Just because this would be an institute or academy is no reason not to teach to an advanced level.You start at the beginning and work forward one step at a time being very careful to do it right each step of the way. The thoroughness and completeness is what is important.I would think the level we would want to reach would be for a graduate to be abele to go into an established church and be a good pastor,a graduate to be able to plant a church and be prepared to make it grow,for a missionary to go into the mission field and do his/her work effectively,for an evangelist to evangelize effectively.
    How will it be done?
    First by remembering how to eat an elephant,one bite at a time.
    Second by recruiting a good, well qualified staff of administators,professors,and technical people.

    Just tossing this around for two weeks we have come up with six people willing to work on this project,I would call that astounding.We probably have enough right now to come up with a statement of faith and a good mission statement.

    We will need to spend much time in prayer.We will need to apply some physical as well as mental elbow grease.We will need to recruit more people.

    We will need as I see it 12 professors to start out with,from the feedback I am getting there are 3 already possibly 4.We will need 1 legal to help set up a tax free non-profit organization.We will need 1 or 2 good web page developers,we will need an admissions person,maybe two as time goes by.We will need the services of an accountant or book keeper for any funds or donations and disbursements.Finally we will need a person or two to hold it all together (be the glue)and help it run smoothly.
    PS. Then we can start recruiting more professors and mentors.

    How long will this take? In my opinion the need is urgent,however we should take as much time as it takes to start out right.I think it would be a miracle to get all of this done in less than a year.I think it might even be foolish to attempt something as important and criticle of a project that quickly. I would say using all energy,speed, and Gods' answer to prayer we do it in and on His time table.
     
  6. UZThD

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    Bill

    I think you make some good points.

    In re to course difficulty:

    IMO, that depends a lot on the availability of materiel and on the degree of interaction between student and prof. You might be surprised how much 7th grade learning disabled students can achieve as long they are coaxed along by a patient and caring teacher who understands and helps to compensate for those things which without that compensation would make learning difficult. Make the course goal substantial but keep the objectives small, and smaller yet, if needed by some individuals, so as to in little steps lead cumulatively to a success in reaching the goal. In that way adjust curriculum to student as needed and not suppose that all students can always adjust to curriculum.
     
  7. Plain Old Bill

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    Good thoughts.Perhaps you could elaborate more on how you did this.Also I love your concept of not lowering expectations but guiding and showing the student how to meet and maybe exceed expectations.
    What was you method of instruction?How did you motivate your students?What were thier learning Steps?
     
  8. Broadus

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    I take it that this thread was inspired by another which I have managed not to see. That said (and with fear that I'm misreading the thrust of the thread), I'm not sure an additional DL venture is needed unless it would satisfy the rigor, credibility, and cost issues. At what level, if one were to do it? I would venture post-bachelor, but a good case can be made for institute as well as college level.

    As things stand, I think there are some viable programs already in place through LBTS, Luther Rice Seminary, and the Founders Study Center at founders.org ( http://study.founders.org/ ).

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
  9. UZThD

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    ===


    EG in teaching thinking / writing, and we did a different paper of 5-10 paragraphs each couple of weeks , I would present an item out the paper for discussion to teach them how to think.

    As an illustration, a news article tells the story of two teens at the home of a third. The parents are out to dinner. The third teen brings out a 9mm auto from his Dad's BR.. They pass it around. One of the first two points it and, not knowing it was loaded, pulls the trigger. A boy is dead!This happened in our town.

    So we spend some time discussing the question: Who is MOSTLY at fault? The manufacturer of the gun? The town for allowing handguns? The father for having the gun accessible? The son for bringing out the gun? The shooter for pointing it without seeing if it were loaded? Who is MOSTLY at fault? I would ask opinions of each even if they were too shy to offer them. I would help them define and express their views verbally.

    Well, they would argue back and forth , but always had to have a reason. We listed the reasons on the board. Then they wrote their papers summarizing the event and using as the thesis which one they thought was MOST at fault. As they wrote I would wander around getting individuals back on track. Each paragraph began with one reason which they developed in that paragraph. A summary paragraph and restatement of thesis ended it. They did NOT have to agree with me or each other. They just needed to have good argumentation.

    A Course: John

    Assignment three: You figure out what monogenes means and argue it well in writing

    Does monogenes in 1:18 mean "only begotten " as in the KJV or or unique as in the NIV?
    Look at the data: (1) the Septuagintal translation of only yahid. What does yahid mean? (2) the 7 usages in the LXX (incl Apocrypha) . Are they about a begetting? (3) the nonChristological usages in Lk/Hebrews is derivation their focus?

    After reviewing the data take a position and write Five paragraphs:

    1) the problem/thesis

    2) yahid

    3) LXX usage

    4) NT usage

    5) summary

    Give help as needed.


    That's one way to teach.

    Another way is for the prof to tell what he thinks it means. Then give an objective true-false test to see if it was "learned."

    But I like my way better!

    [ July 25, 2005, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: UZThD ]
     
  10. Plain Old Bill

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    This thread is another line that started off of the "okay now that you have this fine education" thread.
    Cost is one of the major factors at a rate of $125 to $175+ per semester hour education is just cost prohibitive for some who are called.

    The institute would be a blend of academic rigor at the seminary level for some courses and some hands on practical application (where the rubber meats the road).In addition proper staffing is important.Not only are the proper credentials important for the professors to have but the right kind of teaching taking place.
     
  11. Plain Old Bill

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    Dear UZThD,
    I like your method.It puts the brain to work. It leads and charms a student into participation.It pulls and pushes at the same time.There is no standing on the sidelines or hiding out.

    No spray and pray.
     
  12. UZThD

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    ===

    no pay and play
     
  13. Rhetorician

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    Hey all,

    Are we meandering some? Just thought we might be a little!

    Let us try to stay on topic AMAP (as much as possible).

    sdg!

    rd
     
  14. Plain Old Bill

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    Sorry.Anyhow I think I might have found us someone who would be willing to teach enough music to help a young pastor lead the music in church and maybe teach another how to lead congregational singing.

    Also Bro. James Bell said he will set up our web page and administrate it for us. Does that help any?
     
  15. JamesBell

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    As long as I don't have to sing! That would just make too many peope suffer.
     
  16. Rhetorician

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    RSVP,

    Are we far enough along to ask some "admin" questions? such as:

    1. Do we need an "admin leader" or "go to" guy at this point to start some sort of organization development?

    2. If the answer to Question #1 above is "YES" then who might that be? It seems that there might be two qualifications for position:
    A. Who has the vision or calling for
    the project?
    B. Who has the most time to give?

    It seems that one has volunteered above or "been volunteered" as the case may be as the "Web Master." HA!

    Let me know if there has not been enough discussion on the primary five points of the thread.

    sdg!

    rd
     
  17. JamesBell

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    I think there are still many admin type questions that need to be answered. For example, we don't have a vision statement, nor have we talked about one. There has been little talk about admissions.

    However, I think the primary need at this point is for the "professors" to begin talking to one another about what classes they plan to offer and begin woring on that material while still talking through admin questions.
     
  18. Plain Old Bill

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    I think you are right. It might also be a good idea to come up with a statement of faith and a mission statement.
    I would suggest that UZThD,Rhetorician,and Paul33 would be the best qualified to come up with a statement of faith.
    We should also come up with a mission statement.I think I have some idea of where I would like to see this go.I will state it here and let you guys adjust and refine it.

    Mission
    The purpose of this institute(academy) is to provide academic and practical education for the preparation of pastors,teachers,missionaries,and evangelists to go into the field and be effective workers for the glory of God and thier holy calling in the most complete and economical way possible.

    We should then come up with a set of operating principles.
     
  19. Plain Old Bill

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    By the way thae mission statement could probably be edited and reworked,it is just a draft.
     
  20. Rhetorician

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    Hey all,

    I would like to "Call for a question on the motion."

    We know (presumably) there is a need for the online BB academy.

    We know there are plenty of gifted, erudite, educated, and experienced people that can do the various categories of work.

    We know (believe) that many would come to work with us both student wise and instructor wise. Some may be laying back to see what becomes of the project.

    We know that one has volunteered to do the web site and be Web Master.

    What we DO NOT KNOW nor do we have is one single person to "ramrod" or oversee the whole deal.

    This seems to me to be the next logical step in moving from the abstract to the concrete. If this thing is to go--then we have to have a "fearless leader" (said in love and with tongue 'n cheek).

    I suggest that we dispense with all of the "talking around the world" about what we need or don't need and "open the floor for nominations!" The nominations could be for the "Temporary Interim Headmaster" of the online BB Academy.

    I am just trying to keep this thing on track.

    Whatdayathink?

    Let me know.

    sdg!

    rd
     

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